The Correct Chronology of Revelation Chapters 6 and 7

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Lets just say you should understand that the Smiths house will at a future point in time be invaded by some thugs while they go on a vacation at the Grand Canyon without me having to spell it out. The same goes for the Pre Trib Rapture, tbh, its getting to the point where I just shake my head, this is 2 + 2 = 4 stuff. All anyone has to do is ADD OT ALL UP, the TIMING TELLS are where it is at. People in Heaven marrying Jesus in Rev. 19, people seen in Heave  in Rev. 4:4, 5:9-10, can't even be there without a Rapture. And we now that NO ONE from the 70th week can get Raptured, Jesus says so in the 5th Seal, he says all of those under the Altar, killed by the Beast, have to wait until ALL, not some more, not a few more, but ALL........ALL of their Brothers have been killed before they can get this vengeance they want, but against who? PEOPLE ON EARTH........So those living on earth at that SPECIFIC TIME PERIOD killed them !! So, those under the Altar at the 5th Seal can not be a part of the Church Age (who have already been Raptured anyway) because those people ON EARTH killed them.

Rev. 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

You are right. You need to start with shorter explanations because just in the above paragraph you have taken for granted that I know something that was not said here - maybe somewhere else, but not here. I'll list them:

1. A Pre-Tribulation rapture that leaves martyrs behind and beneath the altar. Why are there people in heaven, but the best of them - the martyrs - still under the earth?
2. The Beast kills the remaining martyrs. Where does it say this? Were there not martyrs like Stephen 2,000 years earlier when there was no thought of the Beast.
3. People in heaven in Revelation 4? But John is told that he will see things that happen AFTER Laodicea! But the martyrs have not been raptured by Chapter 6!
4. The reason that there are martyrs is the gospel. But vengeance is the opposite of the gospel. How can the brethren of the martyrs be killed "AS THEY WERE" when one died for the gospel and another died for calling for vengeance?

I appreciate that 2 + 2 = 4, but while this is obvious to a tenth-grader, the first-grader must have this explained. In my posting above, I proposed some arguments. You chose not to address them - which is your right, but leaving them unanswered seems that you agree with them. Let's just address one of them. I gave four scriptures that show that a Pre-Tribulation is CONDITIONAL. That is, it has to be earned. Then, if we search to see if all Christians made the pre-tribulation rapture, we find at least four scriptures that show Christians passing through the reign of the Beast. In Revelation 7, 12, 13 and 18 we find God's people on earth and suffering the Beast.

And as regards nobody being raptured in the 70th week, where is this said. The 70 weeks is given to "Daniel's People" - and Daniel was a Jew. That is, the 70th week is EXCLUSIVELY a Jewish matter and they do not have a rapture predicted.

It could be that you have seen much and can't understand why we can't see it. But you can show us the scriptures. Let's start with the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11. You say that they have glorious bodies, but can still die. Please show us how this can happen and why Hebrews 9:27 does not apply. Thanks and God bless

[AdHoc]

31 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

AGREED it is threefold. 1). Is THE TEMPLE. 2). The Sign of Jesus Second Coming in verse 31 (But Jesus also understand some Jews will be Messianic Jews and thus he also gives that version in verses 36-51) 3.)  The End of the Age is given, the Sun an Moon will go dark, then Jesus takes over and that ends the Age of mankind under Satan the liar. He is locked up and Jesus will be the King of kings and Lord of lords on David's Throne. 

Not really as you see it, but it is indeed there, but it is not a part of the 70th week. You see, verse 14 ENDS the Church Age Period, we are Raptured, the Birth Pangs END THERE (verse 14) the Baby is the 70th week !! Get it? Jesus referencing the Temple's Destruction in verses 4-6. The End of the Age of man, and he tells us when the Church must be raptured, when the Gospel has gone unto the ends of the world, he says then THE END will come, and that last 7 years is the End of the Age of Man. Then he gives is the lo down on those goings on via troubles etc. etc. in verses 15-31. Then of course that all ends with his Second Coming in verse 31. So, indeed verses 15-31 are the troubles, Anti-Christ and False Prophet, but not verses 4-14, you are misdiagnosing those verses. That is indeed the Birth Pangs, the BABY is the 70th week, those signs BIRTH the 70th wee troubles. Later signs during the 70th week usher in the Second Coming.  The AoD, the troubles as never before seen, the sun and moon going dark etc. etc. 

I think my first point made this an unwinnable point fir all but us Pre Trib Rapture guys tbh. 

No one is saying the End of the Age is not the 70th week, but the Church is not here. My whole argument is the Birth Pangs BIRTH the end (70th week). Those things seen in verses 7-14 are NOTHING like the End Time Troubles, but you see Jesus only calls those in Matt. 14:15-21 the Greatest Ever Troubles ever seen by mankind, where he mentions THE Anti-Christ and THE False Prophet. The false christs in verses 5 were men the Pharisees put forth to save them from the Fourth Beast (Rome) and that fulfilled John 5:43, those Pharisees rejected Jesus who came in the Fathers name, but accepted another who came in his own name. The false Prophets of verse 11 were those who bellyached until they had the Disciples killed. It was about the High Priests of people who served Zeus, Jupiter, etc. In verse 6 Jesus tells them THE END (70th week) is not yet (he did not want them all rushing back to Jerusalem thinking he had come again, then dying) is not yet. Then in verse 14 he tells them what brings THE END (70th week) and then we get the Rapture as seen in verses 36-51. Jesus kept it on the down low because Israel's fate is different, the 3-5 million Jews who repent will help Jesus set up the Kingdom Age in earth, those Martyrs will be his Glorious Body Helpers, the rest of us I assume return to heaven, I think we help finish off the New Jerusalem, thus when it descends its called the Bride of Christ because we are in it.

The Church came out of Great Tribulation, that is a fact, we built the church on the blood of the Saints. They could not overcome the fact the we were happy to die for our Lord Jesus Christ and singing as they killed us go tp the Romans and others. But many many died. Even missionaries died, it has ben great tribulation, but to all those I say ADD IT UP, the TIMELIE only fits the Pre Trib Rapture.  https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/red-neck-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif John Wayne, True Grit, "he draws it like a sword"

ADD IT UP........https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_amen.gif

O.K. Thanks for the time and effort to answer. I'll need to study your arguments for a day or two. You see, if you examine all the things in Matthew 24:1-31 it is at once obvious that the Church is not the theme. All things are Jewish.

• The Temple destroyed - nothing to do with the Church
• False Christs. The Church might have false TEACHERS but we know who Christ is
• Judea
• Jerusalem
• The Law
• The Sabbath
• "SEEING" the Abomination of Desolation. You must live in and around Jerusalem
• Daniel - a Jewish prophet prophesying about "His People" - the Jews
• The Twelve Apostles - sent to the Jews among the nations (Gal.2)
• Jesus bursting through the clouds like lightning over Jerusalem
• Tribes mourning Whom THEY pierced - the Jews
• The elect gathered from the four winds - only Israel was scattered to the four winds

I find nothing about the Church in this section of Matthew. I find nothing of a rapture although THE Great Tribulation is predicted. The matter is difficult. You will have to take one proof at a time.

[Dennis1209]

On 6/10/2022 at 1:48 PM, Revelation Man said:

Neither is the Rapture, Rev. 6:12-17 is  not even God's Wrath per se, it PROPHESIES of God's soon to come Wrath, which falls in Rev. 8 via the Trumpet Judgments. But it lasts for 42 months, so in Matt. 24:29-31 it paints a picture of Jesus' Second Coming just after the 1260 days of Wrath which is only STARTED by the Asteroid in Revelation chapter 8, that makes the Sun and Moon go dark because of the asteroid. IMMEDIATLY AFTER these 1260 days, Jesus indeed returns. BUT...that is not the Rapture, that is the Second Coming. The Rapture is Pre Trib.

Well until one understands the meaning of everything in Revelation, he has no chance of understanding the Chronological Order of the book of Revelation.

The Rapture happens in Rev. 4:1, we see the Church in Heaven in Rev. 4:4 AND Rev. 5:9-10. Then Jesus starts opening this Seven Sealed Scroll which has the Judgements of God in them. As he takes off or loosens one Seal in Heaven, he then Prophesies about SOON TO COME EVENTS, which can only come once all 7 Seals are taken off this Scroll, thus only then can the scroll be UNROLLED and the Judgments brought forth.

So, the first four Seals are the Horses, the 5th Seal are the Martyrs of those who come to Christ during the 70th week, after the Pre Trib Rapture. This, both are Jesus telling us what will happen once the Anti-Christs soon to come rule starts. He will 1.) Conquer 2.) Bring Wars 3.) his wars bring Famine 4.) His rule brings Sickness and death. 5.) His tyranny will see him murder born again  Christians and Jews who did not repent and flee Judea, AND all men who refuse to acknowledge him as their god !!BUT...This all starts in Rev. 8, as the Asteroid hits, he uses that as COVER to go forth conquering Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region. Not the whole world, the two Americas will basically be destroyed by the Asteroid (1/3). Thus, he needs not worry about the Great and Powerful USA and her Nukes, which are a shell of herself anyway by that time, after the Rapture, and after the Economic Collapse that is coming before the Rapture as in NOW (Biden job is to destroy the world economy).

The 6th Seal is ANOTHER PROPHESY, it is Jesus saying, when the 7th Seal is finally opened THIS WILL HAPPEN, and he foretells of the Sun and Moon going DARK and God's Great Wrath falling. Now to find this go to Rev. 8, the Fire FALLS in Trump #1 the Asteroid IMPACTS in Trump #2 the POISONOUS FALLOUT happens in Trump #3 and the Sun and Moon GO DARK in Trumpet #4, which is SEAL #6 coming to pass !! Just like Trumpet #4 is Joel 2:31 COMING TO PASS !! (It chills me to have been chosen by God to understand all this). 

So, Rev. 6 happens after the Rapture (Rev. 4:1) and BEFORE the 1260 Middle of the Week Wrath of God (Rev. 8) and IN BETWEEN at the 1290, we see Israel(144,000) Fleeing Judea in Rev. chapter 7 !! Then we get a glimpse of the Pre Trib Raptured Church IN HEAVEN in Rev. 7:9-17.

The SILENCE is because the Judgment is about to FALL ON MANKIND, and no one in Heaven rejoices at Judgment on mankind. In Seals 1-6 we hear Jesus. In Seal #7 Jesus says nothing because Judgment is now at hand. The 7th Seal is over in Rev. chapter 8 because the Seals are PROPHESYING God's Coming Judgments.

If you had a Closet Door that had 7 locks on it, and you also had 7 gifts you had received fir your birthday behind that locked closet door. You could invite your friends over, and as you opened each lock, you could describe a different gift, after the 6th lock, everyone has heard the gifts described, BUT.....the door is still locked, there is one lock left on the closet door, no one has SEEN ANY GIFT YET !! Then, when you open the 7th and final lock, would you describe another gift, or simply STAY SILENT and open the door ?

Jesus has nothing left to say Judgment is now at hand via the 7 Trumpet Judgments.

Amen, even so, Glory to God, Come Lord Come.

Your view pretty much reflects my own. One-third of the earth's green grass and trees will be burned up. This also suggests all surface life will be destroyed by fervent heat and smoke. I have always wondered where this geographic location will be? It so happens that this hemisphere's landmass is just about one-third of earth's land. I am not claiming anything in my following thoughts; just thinking out loud, watching, and wondering.

There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

The Greek word for star is astrŏn, where we derive our English word asteroid. Could we be getting "a sign" for an impending asteroid impact, among the other signs?

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Men's hearts failing for fear, the heavens shaken? Could an impending catastrophic asteroid impact be one of those things causing this great global fear?

If the global governments, NASA, and astrophysicists knew for sure or highly suspected a cataclysmic asteroid impact event. Would they come clean or hide it for as long as possible to prevent panic, chaos, and the breakdown of civilization? They would only be able to hide it for so long until it became apparent and others figured and calculated it out closer to the event.

I believe we are living in the last days before the start of the Tribulation, the tail end of those days. Never has there been a "convergence" of everything prophetic and aligning to fulfill scripture. We are the terminal generation I do believe.

For brevity, I will not give all the particulars about an asteroid they named APOPHIS and the official predictions. Everything about this asteroid is fascinating, from the name given to this ice rock and size to the projected dates, what will be occurring at the time in Israel if it were to strike the earth, and its projected impact site (U.S. West Coast).

It is not highly publicized, but a concerted effort and considerable expense has been launching and testing asteroid deflection technologies under the radar in the last few years. Coincidence?

The creation of a "Space Force." Is war coming to the cosmos, and we do not want to be left behind, and is there anything more to it?

If there is anything attached to this, the time is short. We shall see in only a few short years as it becomes visible with a backyard telescope and the naked eye.

What was the sign of Jesus's birth (first coming) that the wise men followed? It moved differently than the rest of the stars and was discernable if watching.

Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

How did these mágos discern what they were looking for and no one else did?  

If the preceding is valid, with the pretribulation harpazo view, how close is our redemption? I believe our Rapture is closer than many realize.

I do not have the approval to link them; several websites go into detail on this asteroid APOPHIS, and possibly could be the biblical Wormwood? Prophecy Watchers is one of them.

 

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You are right. You need to start with shorter explanations because just in the above paragraph you have taken for granted that I know something that was not said here - maybe somewhere else, but not here. I'll list them:

Posts length should have no effect, I just read the whole post first, then I get an understanding of the context before I answer, I don't just go through and pick out a few sentences to try and rebut. You cant do that or you will not understand the reply and get lost in the weeds. 

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

• A Pre-Tribulation rapture that leaves martyrs behind and beneath the altar. Why are there people in heaven, but the best of them - the martyrs - still under the earth?
• The Beast kills the remaining martyrs. Where does it say this? Were there not martyrs like Stephen 2,000 years earlier when there was no thought of the Beast.
• People in heaven in Revelation 4? But John is told that he will see things that happen AFTER Laodicea! But the martyrs have not been raptured by Chapter 6!
• The reason that there are martyrs is the gospel. But vengeance is the opposite of the gospel. How can the brethren of the martyrs be killed "AS THEY WERE" when one died for the gospel and another died for calling for vengeance?

1.) No Martyrs are left, people who are not Christians and/or they were the 5 Brides who had no oil (Holy Spirit) so they were fake Christians, are of course not taken by Jesus at the rapture. They then become Christians and refused to take the Mark of the Beast (Rev. 20:4 says so) a d thus became MARTYRS, so Martyrs wee not left behind, they became Christians and decided to lay down their lives for Christ instead of taking the Nark of the Beast (maybe you meant that, probably did). There is no best of them, we are all under Christs blood, it all about TIMING. Those in Heaven had the Holy Spirit when the Rapture happened, they had lamps full of oil, those 5 brides not taken and those who never knew Christ were NOT READY !!

What do you think is meant by a thief in the night and Weeping and gnashing of teeth? Once the Peace Agreement (7 year deal) is in place we all know there will be exactly 1260 days before the Anti-Christ goes on attack AND the Asteroid from Rev. 8 hits (God's Wrath). So, the actual Day of the Lord will not catch many by surprise, except the atheists. The warning is to the fake Church, thus ONE (Bride) is TAKEN and ONE is also LEFT so 50 percent is 5 out of 10, the ratio matches. What Jesus is saying is once the Rapture happens, like a thief in the night who has sneak attacked you, you who were not ready, will be going through the Day of the Lord, you will have to survive the Anti-Christs 3.5 years of terror AND Dodge God's Wrath, just like we Christians now have to dodge tornados and hurricanes etc. So, that is why thee will be Martyrs, people not saved or who thought they were saved, who then realize the error of their ways, all of the sudden see what a mess they are in, they repent, and are willing to die instead of taking the Mark of the Beast. This is why they BECOME Martyrs. This s who Jesus  tells, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth to, he's warning us, if you miss the rapture be FOREWARNED you will then be tested with  question, will you be willing to lay your life down or will you take the Mark? There is a reason those who have to become Martyrs are still on earth, they were not ready but decode they need to come to Christ. Let me ask you, lets say something happened and you turned back to your old lifestyle for few years, the rapture happened and God rightly left you on earth. Would you repent and refuse to take the Mark of the Beast or would just take the Mark and go along to get along? Se my point, of course there will be Martyrs on earth at that time, because they missed the Rapture (one if the 5 Virgins) OR they were never Christians but have now seen the light. 

2.) I am SMH, I spelled it out to you TIMIMG TELLS. Those seen in Heaven in Rev. 4;4, 5:9 and 7:9 have to have been Raptured BEFORE the 70th week because Jesus tells us none of those souls under the Altar can be taken to heaven, they will remain on earth and serve with Jesus for 1000 years (Rev. 20:4).  They were Martyrs who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast.....REV. 20:4.......REV 20:4.........REV 20:4........REV 20:4. Stephen has been Raptured in the Pre Trib Rapture, he is among those seen in Rev. 4:4, 5:9 and 7:9. 

3.) Of course, because Rev. 4:1 is the Rapture and are THE THINGS that are the Hereafter. Rev. 4:4 is the Churches of Rev. 2 & 3 (Things which ARE) we can tell because they actually have all of the PROMISES made to those who OVERCOME, the Crowns (Rev. 2:10) the White Robes (Rev. 3:5) and they sit at God's THRONE (Rev. 3:21) so how can they have the Promises to those who Overcome, if they have not yet overcome and been raised and raptured? The Martyrs are NOT Church Age Martyrs, they are post Rapture Martyrs !! Rev. 20:4 says so. 

4.) Sorry, that is a kind of incoherent statement unto me. I do not get the context tbh. I will try my best. Wanting Vengeance (Righteous Judgment) against those who killed you, when you know they have all taken the ark of the Beast and are therefore DOOMED, is not against the Gospel at all, if you or I take the Mark of the Beast we know we are doomed, so if someone kills me who has taken the MotB and have joined in to this murderous tyrants anti God Government, then I want vengeance on a person who hated God so much he joined the dark forces in order to try to defeat God. (I think that is justice)

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I appreciate that 2 + 2 = 4, but while this is obvious to a tenth-grader, the first-grader must have this explained. In my posting above, I proposed some arguments. You chose not to address them - which is your right, but leaving them unanswered seems that you agree with them.

I have spelled it out, you can't see it, I will not spell it out again. I destroyed those points sir. No one from the 70th week can be raptured to Heaven according to Jesus' words in the 5th Seal, and according to REV. 20:4. And all of those from the Church Age are CLEARLY SEEN in Heaven in Rev. 4:4, 5:9 and 7:9-17.

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I gave four scriptures that show that a Pre-Tribulation is CONDITIONAL. That is, it has to be earned. Then, if we search to see if all Christians made the pre-tribulation rapture, we find at least four scriptures that show Christians passing through the reign of the Beast. In Revelation 7, 12, 13 and 18 we find God's people on earth and suffering the Beast.

And it is on you if you can't think it through and understand people come to Jesus AFTER the Rapture. I mean, people get saved AFTER the Rapture !! People get saved AFTER the Rapture. People get saved AFTER the Rapture. So, there are NEW Christian who must become Martyrs under the Anti-Christ, its that simple.

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

And as regards nobody being raptured in the 70th week, where is this said. The 70 weeks is given to "Daniel's People" - and Daniel was a Jew. That is, the 70th week is EXCLUSIVELY a Jewish matter and they do not have a rapture predicted.

 

In Seal #5 they are told they must wait util the 70th week ends (there brother get killed like they did). In Rev. 20:4 we CAN SEE when they are raised, after Jesus' return. So, HOW are ANYONE seen in Heaven in Rev. 4:4, 5:9 and in Rev. 7:9-17? They were not in the 70th week, they were a part of the Church Age RAPRURED in the Pre Trib Rapture. The Jews still live amongst the Gentiles, the 3-5 million Jews who get saved (144,000 and the 7000 and the 1/3 in Zechariah 13:8-9 all mean the sane thing ALL Israel who repent) will be protected by God. The 70th week simply means the Time of the Gentiles has come in, the Rapture thus takes us to Heave and God is then going to send Elijah to TURN Israel back unto God (Malachi 4:5-6) with the other Witness who I see as Moses.

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

It could be that you have seen much and can't understand why we can't see it. But you can show us the scriptures. Let's start with the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11. You say that they have glorious bodies, but can still die. Please show us how this can happen and why Hebrews 9:27 does not apply. Thanks and God bless

Well, if you have a Glorious Body you are not a man (with sin flesh) any more. We will have Glorious bodies one day, we will not be men with sin flesh anymore will we? Mankind received death via sin, God created us eternal beings, once the SIN FLESH is gone we will never die. Thus Moses and Elijah are allowed to be "KILLED" by God to give us a TIMELINE like I explained. I inferred God Allowed them to "DIE" sans I think its more or less God giving us a timeline, its like He says, you guys spirits will be taken away for 3 1/2 days then brought back into your Glorious Bodies, Jesus' body was done the same way for three days, but Jesus was ALWAYS ALIVE Amen?  God just gave me this in full, glory to God. Well, these Two-witnesses have Glorious Bodies, they can't really be killed. God is just giving us a MARKER for the TIMELINE.

Some scriptures have to be ADDED UP, and the Pharisees failed to ADD UP all the Jesus Birth Signs.

God Bless.........Yes maybe its easier for me to see because it is my calling (Eschatology/Prophesy). I am mindful of that, so that's why I am some detailed via long posts. THINK THEM THROUGN and you might see what I am referring unto more clearly.

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

O.K. Thanks for the time and effort to answer. I'll need to study your arguments for a day or two. You see, if you examine all the things in Matthew 24:1-31 it is at once obvious that the Church is not the theme. All things are Jewish.

• The Temple destroyed - nothing to do with the Church
• False Christs. The Church might have false TEACHERS but we know who Christ is
• Judea
• Jerusalem
• The Law
• The Sabbath
• "SEEING" the Abomination of Desolation. You must live in and around Jerusalem
• Daniel - a Jewish prophet prophesying about "His People" - the Jews
• The Twelve Apostles - sent to the Jews among the nations (Gal.2)
• Jesus bursting through the clouds like lightning over Jerusalem
• Tribes mourning Whom THEY pierced - the Jews
• The elect gathered from the four winds - only Israel was scattered to the four winds

I find nothing about the Church in this section of Matthew. I find nothing of a rapture although THE Great Tribulation is predicted. The matter is difficult. You will have to take one proof at a time.

When you get the TIMING WRONG, all things are seen in a false light. For instance, verses 4-6 are about 70 AD, verses 7-14 are about the Church Age disciples being killed and the coming birth pangs. The Disciples were THE CHURCH also right? 

Then everything after verse 15 is indeed about 70th week Jews. The first verses were also about Jews, but they were Church Age Jews of the Church in 70 AD (verses 4-6) and in verses 7-14.

1.) Jesus told the Disciples not to rush back to Jerusalem after they heard wars and rumors of war for a reason, he knew they would be killed. So, he gave them a PERFECT UNDERSTANDING of the TIMELINE. He told the THE END would only come AFTER the Gospel had been preached unto all the world and since his Disciples whom he was speaking unto, knew about China, India and the Scythians (Russia) it was a known fact that in 70 AD, according to Jesus' own words, the end was not coming to pass at that time, thus the Disciples had a perfect understanding and a GOAL to take the Gospel unto India, China etc. all the whole world. So, the Temple being destroyed was a SIGN to the Disciples who WERE the Church !! 

2.) false christs means false messianic figures. One has to understand first century thinking, the Jews of tat time were not looking for a Suffering Servant but a Conquering King, so in John 5:43 when Jesus prophesies that ye (Pharisees/Jewish Leaders) will reject me who has come in the Fathers name by ye will accept ANOTHER who has come in hos own name, he was referring to Jewish men who were put forth as what the Jews of that day saw as Political Figures who could rally the people to defeat Rome as the conquering Hero would indeed do as Daniel 7 and 8 prophesy, but they did nit realize a Suffering Servant comes first, then the Conquering King. So, they put forth men as Messianic figures to LEAD THE FIGHT, because they understand that a Jewish Leader would help them defeat the Fourth Beast and they understood that would be Rome. They had no clue about the 10 horns only arising 2000 some odd years later as the E.U. has however.  Watch this great video about the siege of Jerusalem, it has TWO MEN who were leaders named  Simon Gioras and John of Gischala who led the Jewish forces of 20,000 men trying to hold of the Invasion. So, the type men, probably these two and a few more, are the fake christs Jesus was prophesying unto the Pharisees about, not men who would come during the 7oth week, we see those in Matthew 24:24. So, yes, verse 5 was about 70 AD sir. The Jews saw the Messiah as a political savior who would lead them to victory over the Fourth Beast (He will, but his name is Jesus, who was also the Suffering Servant).

 

3.) Yes, we see understand the Disciples(Church lived in Judea right? They also started the Church right?

4.) Same with Jerusalem: SEE ABOVE 

5.) AND 6.) Jesus while alive kept every whit of The Law and the Sabbath, so it is what it is.

7.) Yes, as I stated, everything after verse 15 is not about the Raptured Church but the Jews who REPENT during the 70th week troubles of Jacob. The AoD verse is Matt. 24:15-17 right?

8.) Yes, like ABOVE that verse about Daniel is about the TIMES OF TROUBLES which come after verse 14 (Rapture).

9.) No, not all 12 per se, Paul was sent unto the UNCIRCUMCISM (Gentiles) while Peter was sent unto the CIRCUMCISED or Jews amongst the nations. They were still all the Church right? 

10.) Jesus will come again but nit in verses 4-14 right? Thus not during the Church Age Period.

11.) Yes, Israel who REPENT will mourn when they repent during the 70th week which is AFTER verse 14 right?

12.) The Four Winds in God speech simply means from the East, West, North and South. But in that verse. there is another possibility, it says from the Four Winds, from one end of Heaven to the other, Jesus could be describing the Elect Saints (Church) in Heaven he calls to ride White Horses with him (See Rev. 19) back to earth to defeat the Beast and all his minions. Either way, we understand it happens after Matthew 24:14 right? So why are you looking for "THE CHURCH" after verse 14? They (we) are in Heaven at that time. 

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Your view pretty much reflects my own. One-third of the earth's green grass and trees will be burned up. This also suggests all surface life will be destroyed by fervent heat and smoke. I have always wondered where this geographic location will be? It so happens that this hemisphere's landmass is just about one-third of earth's land. I am not claiming anything in my following thoughts; just thinking out loud, watching, and wondering.

There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars.

 

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

If the preceding is valid, with the pretribulation harpazo view, how close is our redemption? I believe our Rapture is closer than many realize.

I do not have the approval to link them; several websites go into detail on this asteroid APOPHIS, and possibly could be the biblical Wormwood? Prophecy Watchers is one of them.

 

Yes, Apophis will hit on April 13, 2029 IMHO, because of all the SIGNS. Thus if you take 3.5 years off the time of arrival, you get a Fall of 2025 Rapture of the Church. The Feast of Trumps always came in the fall, ending the Harvest (THINK Church Age) at the Last Trump (100th Trump).

 

Explains it all by the author of the book. It just gave me more INFO to add into to my understanding of end time events, which is pretty vast, me and Tom part ways on a few things but hes a good guy overall. 

[The Light]

On 6/7/2022 at 12:11 PM, kenny2212 said:

We see the rapture in Rev. 6:12-17. This portion of scripture is cross-referenced in Matt. 24:29-31. 

Yes. Correct.

On 6/7/2022 at 12:11 PM, kenny2212 said:

But it seems the chronology of the ending parts of Rev. 6 and the whole of Rev. 7 is not right. 

Correct again.

On 6/7/2022 at 12:11 PM, kenny2212 said:

The rapture happens in Rev. 6:12-17, the 144,000 israelites are sealed in 7:1-8, and there is the great multitude (who were raptured in Chapter 6) in Rev. 7:9-17.

Now some people might say "Shouldn't the great multitude come after the rapture event? And not after sealing of the 144000?

The chronology is arranged in the bible the way it is because of 2 reasons -

1. The sealing of the 144000 comes after the rapture event 

No sir, the sealing of the 144,000 takes place BEFORE the rapture event.  Yes, there is a rapture event at the 6th seal, but that is not the Church being raptured. They are already in heaven.

This is going to fly right over your head, but the 144,000 are sealed earlier, sometime in the first few seals. The 144,000 are actually raptured to heaven before the great tribulation and are not on earth during the wrath of God. The 144,000 are actually part of the great multitude which is the gathering from heaven and earth. 

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The 144,000 are gathered from heaven as they are redeemed from the earth being the first fruits of that harvest that takes place at the 6th seal.

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Those 144,000 are not sealed to go through the wrath of God. They are sealed and become 1st fruits of the harvest. The second harvest which happens at the 6th seal.

You need a lot more information to be able to understand this, such as the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet and other things, but that's how it goes.

 

[The Light]

On 6/20/2022 at 3:13 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

Yes, Apophis will hit on April 13, 2029 IMHO, because of all the SIGNS. Thus if you take 3.5 years off the time of arrival, you get a Fall of 2025 Rapture of the Church. The Feast of Trumps always came in the fall, ending the Harvest (THINK Church Age) at the Last Trump (100th Trump).

 

The rapture of the Church will likely be the early summer harvest feast of Pentecost.

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The rapture of the Church will likely be the early summer harvest feast of Pentecost.

The Church ARE the Harvesters of the Harvest.......Light, (not the Harvest Light hence the ......)

The Trumpet ends the Harvest Season, that is what is meant by ye can not know the day nor the hour. The New Moon that started the New Year always fell over a two day period of time.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

36 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Church ARE the Harvesters of the Harvest.......Light, (not the Harvest Light hence the ......)

The Trumpet ends the Harvest Season, that is what is meant by ye can not know the day nor the hour. The New Moon that ended the New Year always fell over a two day period of time.

This is true, and yet the Church will be the early summer harvest. It is the twelve tribes across the earth that will be harvested on the fall fruit harvest.