Daniel 9:26, 27 explained through New Test verses? YES? or no

[DeighAnn]

4 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Sorry DeighAnn, I left something out... The destruction of the Temple by Titus in 70 AD was NOT to take place WITHIN THE LAST WEEK OF DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK. This most important week belonged to the Messiah ONLY and would include ONLY those 6 requirements He was given to fulfill by His Father. The physical Temple, AFTER THE CROSS, was no longer important and would never again hold any value to God... the Messiah would be our Holy Temple. But that did not mean the physical Temple would not be predicted to be destroyed...as it is clearly predicted in verse 26... but again, it is predicted in these same verses but it DOES NOT mean it had to be fulfilled within the last week. 

Charlie

BUT THE PRAYER was about the city and the people near and far.  

[Charlie744]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

But the temple wasn't destroyed for another 40 years.  You have Jesus being born and dying in 3 1/2 years later.  

No, the Messiah would begin His ministry at the beginning of the 70th week. Then within 3.5 years, He would be crucified.

The Temple (physical) no longer had any worth .. it had completed its mission. It was to serve as a type of the coming Messiah and now that Jesus arrived, the Temple, the sacrificial system would no longer be needed. For those Jews that believed Jesus was not the Messiah, they would want to continue the sacrificial system and have a need for the Temple... but that does not change the fact that Jesus had done away with them.... They could go on after the Cross and worship a doorknob - who cares, they rejected their Messiah.

 

Charlie

 

 

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

BUT THE PRAYER was about the city and the people near and far.  

The prayer was not about the coming Messiah and the city and its people --- at least not in the way you MAY think it (and I apologize for assuming how I think you are thinking it).

The prayer is absolutely REQUIRED to take place after the Jews spent the last 70 years in captivity. Although they completed their "punishment" period of 70 years, God demands they offer a sincere prayer and seek His f0rgiveness... In Leviticus there is a blessing and a curse for disobeying God, but even though God may / will punish someone, they MUST  still show Him they are deeply sorry for their disobedience an ask His forgiveness. Without this prayer, the Jews would not have been forgiven and allowed to return home. The interesting thing here is Daniel was not a priest and only the priest could offer up a prayer for the forgiveness of their sins (both collectively and for the priest individually). But because of Daniel's holiness, God would allow him to offer that prayer for him and the Jews.

Charlie

[DeighAnn]

16 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

The prayer was not about the coming Messiah and the city and its people --- at least not in the way you MAY think it (and I apologize for assuming how I think you are thinking it).

The prayer is absolutely REQUIRED to take place after the Jews spent the last 70 years in captivity. Although they completed their "punishment" period of 70 years, God demands they offer a sincere prayer and seek His f0rgiveness... In Leviticus there is a blessing and a curse for disobeying God, but even though God may / will punish someone, they MUST  still show Him they are deeply sorry for their disobedience an ask His forgiveness. Without this prayer, the Jews would not have been forgiven and allowed to return home. The interesting thing here is Daniel was not a priest and only the priest could offer up a prayer for the forgiveness of their sins (both collectively and for the priest individually). But because of Daniel's holiness, God would allow him to offer that prayer for him and the Jews.

Charlie

Daniel 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

Daniel 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Daniel 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God for thy city and thy people are called by thy name

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Are you saying that this is REALLY saying

...Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall come shall destroy Messiah (the city and the sanctuary) because His death has left is all desolate.

Correct?



 

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Are you also saying the above is REALLY saying

And Jesus shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK and in the midst of the week Jesus shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and for the overspreading of abominations Jesus shall make it desolate, even until the .....



 

[Eternally Gratefull]

55 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

...mix with the seed of men.  Which one is that? 

Is the 'short season' before being bound 1000 years or after? 

Isn't it the hour of temptation before and the short season after and goes into perdition? 


BUT maybe those 7 are Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece, Rome, Turks, DURING REVELATION Beast w/10 heads, Lords Day, Satan released short season.

 

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

'one is' Satans kingdom 'the beast', who will be bound 1000 years, and released for a short time.  

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Doesn't that fit better?

I see it like this

 

The kingd are those who ruled over Israel, Take at as John righting these things are true at the time he wrote The words.

5 are fallen

Egypt. Enslaved israel for 400 years until the exodus

Assyria (overtook the northern kingdom of Israel)

Babylon, Media-peria and the Grecian empires have held rule since babylon destroyed the first temple

1 Is

Rome was in power at the time of Johns writing

1 is to come

this is the final form of rome,  

As for the 8th, this will be the future prince after he is overcome and controlled by satan himself (the son of perdition) 

[Eternally Gratefull]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

If you do not mind, and I have a terrific reason for NOT addressing your second concern (please forgive me since it would cause just too much confusion), but regarding your first concern, the answer is unequivocally YES. The Messiah will arrive at the beginning of the 70th week (last week of Daniel's 70th week) and fulfill all of the requirements His Father had given Him to complete (6 requirements in 9:24). This is NOT a 7 year COVENANT.... Jesus will CONFIRM THE Jeremiah 31 COVENANT  in the last 7  years of Daniel's 70 weeks. 

 

Charlie 

This makes no sense.

 

Jesus comes at the end of the 70th week not the begining

Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation in the holy place… This is done by He of verse 27, not christ.  

As for vs 27, Gabriel told Daniel he will confirm a covenant for 1 week (7 years) did gabriel get it wrong?   

 

As for not responding to the 2nd part of my question. You prety much have to if you are going to try to convince me the HE of vs 27 (which commits the abomination of desolation) is Christ.. you can not seperate the two. 

[Charlie744]

10 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Daniel 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

Daniel 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Daniel 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God for thy city and thy people are called by thy name

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Are you saying that this is REALLY saying

...Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall come shall destroy Messiah (the city and the sanctuary) because His death has left is all desolate.

Correct?



 

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Are you also saying the above is REALLY saying

And Jesus shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK and in the midst of the week Jesus shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and for the overspreading of abominations Jesus shall make it desolate, even until the .....



 

YES.... but there is one correction above - You said,

 

"Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall come shall destroy Messiah (the city and the sanctuary) because His death has left is all desolate."

The only correction I would mention is the Messiah is NOT destroyed by the prince of the people - the Temple, sanctuary, millions of Jews murdered, etc. in 70 AD. This verse is not about those things that will occur DURING the last week but as a result of His crucifixion.

Charlie

[Eternally Gratefull]

59 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Messiah WAS CUT OFF.  He lived DURING the 69th week but was crucified AFTER that week had ended.  Those the 69th week ended, the 70th didn't begin.  IF the 70th week would have begun then, Christ would have been cut off in the 70th and then 3 1/2 years later the temple would have had to have been destroyed for the 'sacrifice and oblation' (AS everyone else sees it but me) to cease and 3 1/2 years after that Jesus returned, right?

If I seem totally confused it is because I don't understand how Christ is crucified/cut off and then later 'the sacrifice and oblation being cut off mid week is Christ being crucified again.  

I think many are confused, as they think Jesus arrived at his baptism. Thats not what the OT states. It states equivivolly your messiah will be introduced riding on the foul of a donkey. 

Zechariah 9:9

The Coming King

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey

This is the point that Isreal should have looked for in prophecy. This is also the time Jesus said they should have known the time of his coming and rejoiced, but now it would be hidden from them. 

This is the end of the 69th week. 

The cross occured a week of days after 

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Here is another way of trying to say the same thing re: the 69th and the 70th week and where the Messiah not only ARRIVES BUT IS CRUCIFIED AFTER TH 69TH WEEK:

Saying a little differently- I hope this might help;

Say John started pitching in the first inning and stayed in for 3 innings.

Then Joe came in to pitch for 4 innings (so far a total of 7 innings have been completed).

Then Mike comes in to pitch the last two innings AND the announcer tells the fans over the PA system that Mike will come in and replace Joe AFTER 4 innings of pitching. Well, that is true but it was / is also AFTER both John and Joe have pitched 7 innings collectively. But the announcer just tells the fans Mike came in to replace Joe AFTER 4 innings.
 

Same with the Messiah- He will be cut off AFTER the 62 weeks have ended (similar to the 4 innings pitched by Joe which really is at the end of the 7th inning. Mike will begin the start of the 8th inning. The Messiah will start His ministry at the beginning of the 70th week. But He will be cut off within 3.5 years if the total 7-year period. 

Charlie

It does not fit.

 

Messiah does not come till the end of the 69th week.

He showed up exactly on time

he is cut off after..

Messiah did not come at his baptism as many think.. no one would have recognized that as the time of messiah because that was nto prophesied.

 

and the cross is not the abomination of desolation.. An abomination that causes desolation is an unclean thing placed in a holy place rendering it unclean or desolate.

 

Antiochus epiphanies slaughtered a pig in the holy place. It was called an abomination that makes desolate.

this is wat the jews would have looked for..

Jesus also spoke of it. As occuring right before the great tribulation. Which would be ended with his return. Which prophecy states will be the time Israel repents.

The things which were to come true at the end of the 70th week have not yet happened.  Israel is still in sin, she has not repented. 

[Eternally Gratefull]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks DeighAnn. The Messiah would arrive AFTER THE 69TH WEEK ENDED. Which means He arrived on the exact first day of the 70th week (baptized in the Jordan), and this began His ministry on earth. But He would indeed be crucified 3.5 years AFTER HE BEGAN HIS MINISTRY OR "IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK" - THE FINAL WEEK OF DANIEL'S 70 WEEKS. He was "cut off" in the "midst of the last week" of Daniel's 70 week prophecy.

Charlie

This is where you are missing the time

He did not arrive in the Jordan, Jesus continually said, My time is not yet. Over and over and over.

His time was when he rode into Israel.

we need to get out timeline correct. Or everything else will be off