The Sign of the Son of Man

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Charlie,

Always good to hear from you.

In Matthew 24, when the disciples asked Jesus for the signs of His return ( what made them even ask about His return? as this was before the cross? What did they know?)....

He responds by telling them that " many will come in My name, there will be deception, wars and rumors of wars.... famines, earthquakes etc...."

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation and will kill you, many will betray one another, hate one another, lawlessness will increase, love of most will grow cold....."

Then in verse 15, He says...." When you see the abomination of desolation, run for the hills.... don't turn back (Like Lot's wife) .....

"Then there will be great tribulation such such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, NOR EVER WILL"

So this will be the "greatest show on earth".... so to speak. There will not be another like it, ever again.

Then in verse 29...."But immediately after the tribulation of those days"......

" Those days".... can only refer back to the days that Jesus just spoke about... vs 15-28

So are you saying that those days happened in the first century?

And that those days would not be equaled ever again.... that those days were "the greatest show on earth"?

I just don't see a 2000 year "gap" in there, between verse 29 and 30. 

It's too much of a stretch!

Joe, please take a quick look at the attached word doc.  It is a quick distribution of the two answers given by Jesus to His apostles in Matthew 24.

One is where He is addressing the short term question-  not one stone...

The second is where He is addressing His return to earth..

 

Not an exhaustive study but any means but I have read this before during my study on Daniel - specifically chapter 2 ...

Please let me know your thoughts, thanks again, Charlie

 

 

 

JoeCanada.docx

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Sure, I guess.... it could be. But in the NT when Scripture speaks of "tribe", it more often than not refers to one of the twelve tribes of Israel.

From Thayers Greek Lexicon:

1. a tribe; in the N. T. all the persons descended from one of the twelve sons of the patriarch Jacob

2. a race, nation, people: Matthew 24:30; Rev. (Revelation 1:7); Revelation 5:9; 7:9; (Revelation 11:9); Revelation 13:7; 14:6

From Strong's Definitions:

φυλή phylḗ, foo-lay'; from G5453 (compare G5444); an offshoot, i.e. race or clan:—kindred, tribe.

I understand. Still, the scripture says, '...all the tribes of the earth...' and that is every lineage in the arena.

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Yes, that would be quite the sign.

But is it the Sign of the Son of Man?

I don't know. Scripture never says just what it is. What I see in the Revelation is the sky receding. What happens then? Is the sky rolling back the sign or is the sign revealed when the sky rolls back? 

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 In reference to the "tribes" being the 12 tribes of Israel, which seems to be what Scripture is pointing to, how can the "sky receding and an earthquake" relate to the "sign of the Son of Man"?

The moment of the sign perhaps? It's intriguing, that's for sure. In any case I don't think we will mistake what it is and what it means. 

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

How would the "tribes of Israel" scattered across the globe "mourn" when they see the "sky receding and an earthquake"? That is from Revelation.

Not exactly sure. Could be all the sky is rolled up everywhere. Maybe all the people are only in a small area of the earth. Maybe it's a supernatural thing beyond our knowing. Maybe the earth is flat. 

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

It's a little different in Matthew.... "and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn..."

 

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

When Scripture speaks about the people of the earth, they are called "earth dwellers". Only the people of Israel are called "tribes of the earth". The Bride is called believers, saints, bondservants, the redeemed, saved, holy ones....etc. Never "earth dwellers or tribes".... 3 different groups

I don't want to get into all that but the scripture does say, 

"and all the tribes of the earth will mourn"

That to me is the tribes of the earth, not only tribes of a specific ethnicity.

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Joel tells us that in Joel 2:30...." I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, blood, fire and columns of smoke"  (pillars)

 And he will pour out His spirit and the sun will go dark and the moon will turn to blood. All pretty heady signs we won't miss. At least I think we won't miss them. 

I really don't know what the sign is. Scripture isn't forthcoming on that. 

[JoeCanada]

21 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Joe, please take a quick look at the attached word doc.  It is a quick distribution of the two answers given by Jesus to His apostles in Matthew 24.

One is where He is addressing the short term question-  not one stone...

The second is where He is addressing His return to earth..

 

Not an exhaustive study but any means but I have read this before during my study on Daniel - specifically chapter 2 ...

Please let me know your thoughts, thanks again, Charlie

 

 

 

JoeCanada.docxUnavailable

Well Charlie,

Here are my thoughts:

I don't have any because the word doc couldn't be opened.... 

[Charlie744]

37 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Well Charlie,

Here are my thoughts:

I don't have any because the word doc couldn't be opened.... 

So sorry Joe.. I opened Worthy up and clicked on the Word doc image and it came up with no problem... I will try again .. please let me know if you could open it and thanks, Charlie

Joe, I will say again, this is by no means an exhaustive or complete study.. it is something for you to consider.

 

 

JoeCanada.docx

[Retrobyter]

1 minute ago, Charlie744 said:

So sorry Joe.. I opened Worthy up and clicked on the Word doc image and it came up with no problem... I will try again .. please let me know if you could open it and thanks, Charlie

Joe, I will say again, this is by no means an exhaustive or complete study.. it is something for you to consider.

 

 

JoeCanada.docxUnavailable

Shalom, Charlie744.

I couldn't see it, either. It is there in the post, but it is marked "Unavailable." Your Word document is probably only on your computer. You can see it, but it is "Unavailable" to us. Down at the bottom of the edit page, you will see "Drag files here to attach, or choose files..." Click on the "choose files..." which is underlined, and find it on your computer. Copy it to the Worthy site, and THEN click it into the post. Worthy accepts "docx" files, but you must put it on the Worthy site for others to see it.

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, Diaste said:

I understand. Still, the scripture says, '...all the tribes of the earth...' and that is every lineage in the arena.

I don't know. Scripture never says just what it is. What I see in the Revelation is the sky receding. What happens then? Is the sky rolling back the sign or is the sign revealed when the sky rolls back? 

The moment of the sign perhaps? It's intriguing, that's for sure. In any case I don't think we will mistake what it is and what it means. 

Not exactly sure. Could be all the sky is rolled up everywhere. Maybe all the people are only in a small area of the earth. Maybe it's a supernatural thing beyond our knowing. Maybe the earth is flat. 

 

I don't want to get into all that but the scripture does say, 

"and all the tribes of the earth will mourn"

That to me is the tribes of the earth, not only tribes of a specific ethnicity.

 And he will pour out His spirit and the sun will go dark and the moon will turn to blood. All pretty heady signs we won't miss. At least I think we won't miss them. 

I really don't know what the sign is. Scripture isn't forthcoming on that. 

Shalom, @Diaste and @JoeCanada.

Have you considered that "the tribes of the earth" can also be translated as "the tribes of the LAND?" The Greek word "gee" (spelled "gamma-eta" and pronounced "gay") is the Greek word used to translate the Hebrew word "'erets" (spelled "'alef-segol-reish-segol-tsadday" and pronounced "eh-rets")? (Note: The vowel pointing "segol" is the "eh" sound in "bed," a short "e.")

This can be seen in Matthew 2:

Matthew 2:19-20 (KJV)

19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 Saying,

"Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life."

The Greek of verse 20 is ...

20 λέγων, Ἐγερθεὶς παράλαβε τὸ παιδίον καὶ τὴν μητέρα αὐτοῦ, καὶ πορεύου εἰς γῆν Ἰσραήλ· τεθνήκασι γὰρ οἱ ζητοῦντες τὴν ψυχὴν τοῦ παιδίου.

Transliterated, this is ...

20 legoon, "Egertheis paralabe to paidion kai teen meetera autou, kai poreuou eis geen Israeel; tethneekasi gar hoi zeetountes teen psucheen tou paidiou."

Translated word-for-word, this is ...

20 saying, "Having-arisen take the child and the mother of-Him, and go into [the]-land of-Israel; they-have-died for the-ones seeking the life of-the child."

The phrase here, "eis geen Israeel" is a prepositional phrase beginning with the preposition "eis" meaning "into." And, this preposition takes the accusative case for its object. The accusative case of "gee" is "geen." Thus, the word "gee" can be used for "earth," OR it can be used for "land!"

 I should include that "gee" is used in Matthew 24:30 as "pasai hai fulai tees gees" = "all the families/tribes of-the earth/land."

Edited August 30, 2022 by Retrobyter
to add the Greek of Matthew 24:30

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Charlie744.

I couldn't see it, either. It is there in the post, but it is marked "Unavailable." Your Word document is probably only on your computer. You can see it, but it is "Unavailable" to us. Down at the bottom of the edit page, you will see "Drag files here to attach, or choose files..." Click on the "choose files..." which is underlined, and find it on your computer. Copy it to the Worthy site, and THEN click it into the post. Worthy accepts "docx" files, but you must put it on the Worthy site for others to see it.

Here it is.. I will send it to Joe and myself and reopen Worthy to see if it took...

 

@Retrobyter @JoeCanada @Charlie744

 

 

JoeCanada.docx

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Here it is.. I will send it to Joe and myself and reopen Worthy to see if it took...

 

@Retrobyter @JoeCanada @Charlie744

 

 

JoeCanada.docxUnavailable

Shalom, Charlie744.

Sorry, Charlie, but it's still showing "Unavailable."

[Charlie744]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Charlie744.

Sorry, Charlie, but it's still showing "Unavailable."

Try anything.. saved as pdf and send to you..

JoeCanada.pdf

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Try anything.. saved as pdf and send to you..

JoeCanada.pdfUnavailable

Shalom, Charlie744.

Sorry, it's still showing "Unavailable." When I clicked on it, the message was, "This attachment is not available. It may have been removed or the person who shared it may not have permission to share it to this location."

I don't know what to tell you. The topic belongs to @JoeCanada. Between the two of you with a moderator's help, you may be able to resolve the issue.

Is it too long to copy and paste into your text? Just a thought. I don't know.