ayin jade Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 2 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Sorry to go off subject twice, but do you think Jesus ever thought God had forsaken Him on the cross? I don't understand why it was predicted He would say it, even though I understand why He did. Just hoping for another direction from the one I currently have. When He recited that line on the cross, I think He was deliberately pointing to the old testament prophecies, a reminder of who He is. So that people present there would know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,690 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 862 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, ayin jade said: When He recited that line on the cross, I think He was deliberately pointing to the old testament prophecies, a reminder of who He is. So that people present there would know. 2 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Sorry to go off subject twice, but do you think Jesus ever thought God had forsaken Him on the cross? I don't understand why it was predicted He would say it, even though I understand why He did. Just hoping for another direction from the one I currently have. When He recited that line on the cross, I think He was deliberately pointing to the old testament prophecies, a reminder of who He is. So that people present there would know. DeighAnn, I think @ayin jade is right on the money! There seems to be at least two thoughts: Jesus is purposely quoting Psalm 22:1 to reveal to the Jews that He is indeed the Messiah, and the second is, that this would be the ONLY time in His life where He would experience separation from the Father. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 31 minutes ago, ayin jade said: When He recited that line on the cross, I think He was deliberately pointing to the old testament prophecies, a reminder of who He is. So that people present there would know. Best explanation I have ever heard. Thank you for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,887 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Side note, note Is that truer to the truth to say Jesus 'paid the penalty of death' for all the sins of the world, and not so much 'died' for everyone? because it is only those who repent of their sins His death pays the penalty for as those who don't repent they pay their own. I think this distinction is important especially in the DIFFERENCE between saved and not saved and set to show what the differences in death and dying are between the two. Thank for separating your questions...so we can look into them with more clarity.. These are not simple questions, there is a lot of context included even in a single one of your questions because they are deep thought questions...so we need to walked them carefully... Jesus said to his disciples preached the Gospel to all and those who believe will be saved... He also said do not Judge those who did not believe because they are still invited to believe, and they can believe later on...as long as they live they are invited to believe....most believers they did not believe at first... Repentance is for the believer, and it can also take place before someone believes or about when someone is about to believe.. Jesus accepts everyone faith in him the moment they believe. He is not going to wait about what you are suggesting... When someone believes he wants Jesus to forgive their sins....and it happens that moment... The rest are for other reasons, and to each one his own... Jesus from that time takes over and others try also to take control of the believer.. No Jesus is not like the other people who demand something from others when they do not have it just yet..Jesus will prepared them and when they are able he will asked something from them... Jesus accepts the faith of everyone without demanding proof of rehabilitation or the want to change, without putting this burden on anyone but only make it available to them...not all believers has to be disciples... He told them make disciples because he knew that he is not coming in their lifetime to do what they hoped for... They needed to make disciples from generations to generations to teach the faith to others who will carry the torch to the next one...and not to Judge the simple folks, simple believers amongst themselves... No everyone seeks after him like the disciples did... If there is faith in the heart of anyone he/she is saved..or is not lost.. No one needs to be saved from the things of this world first and then be saved from Jesus... Jesus Christ saves anyone who believes in him before he/she is saved from the things of this world. Edited July 15, 2022 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 22 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Thank for separating your questions...so we can look into them with more clarity.. These are not simple questions, there is a lot of context included even in a single one of your questions because they are deep thought questions...so we need to walked them carefully... Jesus said to his disciples preached the Gospel to all and those who believe will be saved... He also said do not Judge those who did not believe because they are still invited to believe, and they can believe later on...as long as they live they are invited to believe....most believers they did not believe at first... Repentance is for the believer, and it can also take place before someone believes or about when someone is about to believe.. Jesus accepts everyone faith in him the moment they believe. He is not going to wait about what you are suggesting... When someone believes he wants Jesus to forgive their sins....and it happens that moment... The rest are for other reasons, and to each one his own... Jesus from that time takes over and others try also to take control of the believer.. No Jesus is not like the other people who demand something from others when they do not have it just yet..Jesus will prepared them and when they are able he will asked something from them... Jesus accepts the faith of everyone without departing proof of rehabilitation or the want to change, without putting this burden on anyone but only make it available to them...not all believers has to be disciples... He told them make disciples because he knew that he is not coming in their lifetime to do what they hoped for... They needed to make disciples from generations to generations to teach the faith to others who will carry the torch to the next one...and not to Judge the simple folks, simple believers amongst themselves... No everyone seeks after him like the disciples did... If there is faith in the heart of anyone he/she is saved..or is not lost.. No one needs to be saved from the things of this world first and then be saved from Jesus... Jesus Christ saves anyone who believes in him before he/she is saved from the things of this world. I am going to thank you for this explanation and let you know I appreciate it, but for right now because I can not place what is causing the 'uncomfortable feeling' I am feeling, so I am going to let it go. Not to mention, I am very tired again (still?) and usually that means I need one on one with the pure words of God for a few days to 'revive'. Thank you again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,887 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 3 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Sorry to go off subject twice, but do you think Jesus ever thought God had forsaken Him on the cross? I don't understand why it was predicted He would say it, even though I understand why He did. Just hoping for another direction from the one I currently have. The Leaders and the people thought that Jesus was being judged by God...they did not know that Jesus was obedient to the Father and that the Father loved him and he was there with him so Jesus will be encouraged that he is and continue to be in the will of the Father... When Jesus said those words, it is because his mission was completed successfully and he had the witness from the Father that he was in full obedience to him... Someone who still believed that Jesus was from God inspite of what the Leaders said about him, maybe wondering as to why Jesus would give this testimony. They were waiting for the Father to intervene and saved Jesus from the Cross and reveal him to the people and they kept that hope alive in them event at that time, like his disciples believing that the Father will intervene and saved him, because the Christ must not die... They did believe that the Father was with him and he will saved him... But when they heard Jesus saying that the Father has left him, that he was not with him anymore they must have felt deeply troubled. Why would the Father abandon Jesus on the Cross, when he is supposed to saved him in their beliefs at that time...did Jesus did something or he disobeyed the Father in some way that cause the Father to depart from him? But to the Father and Jesus it is quite different why Jesus had to say those words and to say them at that moment just before he died. Jesus had to stay alive so all the prophetic about him had to be fulfilled first, even when he said he given to drink the wine vinegar from the Roman soldier. And all the prophetic of Isaiah 53 had to be fulfilled and the prophetic in the Psalms.... When everything was done and the Father had informed Jesus that he is in his will... The Father left Jesus, because that was the time for Jesus Christ to die... Jesus experience that, when the Father left him alone, and he also knew that the moment for him to died had come... The Father could be with him as long as Jesus was alive, and not after Jesus Christ died because when Jesus Christ died he went to the place of the dead...or descend to the place of the dead. He went there alone, the Father could not go there with him, but Jesus still had with him the words of the Father in his heart... That also tells us that Jesus died...this is also a witness that Jesus indeed died...and Jesus left his dead body and the Father could not follow him there because this was the place of the dead and that's it was only possible for Jesus to go there, he had to die first. As to complete his mission in that place and go to Abraham and David and John the Baptist...who were expecting him any time after the witness of John the Baptist and even the witness of Lazarus who was raised from the bosom of Abraham just a few days before Jesus death... That also tell us that Jesus when he died did not go to Heaven... The Father was not waiting for Jesus to die so he can take him to Heaven with him...no that was not his proposed for being with Jesus during that time.... the Father and Jesus both of them knew what will happen and Jesus knew that his time to die had come when the Father left him... Jesus knew that he will die and he knew that his disciples and his mother were waiting for him to come down from the Cross and before he died he told them that this will not happen...when he told to John : John this is your mother and mother this is your Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyB Posted July 16, 2022 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,628 Content Per Day: 1.14 Reputation: 304 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/23/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2022 Regarding the OP... Paul wrote to the church in Rome, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4 and "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 16, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, JimmyB said: Regarding the OP... Paul wrote to the church in Rome, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4 and "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 Sorry but I am not following you here. Joined to Christ, to the New Covenant? Grace and eternal life though Grace? OK but what does that tell me about what was wrong with being under the law? I have a different question you might answer, as far as 'death' and 'resurrection' goes , WHAT is the difference Under the law when they died what happened? Under grace when we die what happens? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 16, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 22 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: The Leaders and the people thought that Jesus was being judged by God...they did not know that Jesus was obedient to the Father and that the Father loved him and he was there with him so Jesus will be encouraged that he is and continue to be in the will of the Father... When Jesus said those words, it is because his mission was completed successfully and he had the witness from the Father that he was in full obedience to him... Someone who still believed that Jesus was from God inspite of what the Leaders said about him, maybe wondering as to why Jesus would give this testimony. They were waiting for the Father to intervene and saved Jesus from the Cross and reveal him to the people and they kept that hope alive in them event at that time, like his disciples believing that the Father will intervene and saved him, because the Christ must not die... They did believe that the Father was with him and he will saved him... But when they heard Jesus saying that the Father has left him, that he was not with him anymore they must have felt deeply troubled. Why would the Father abandon Jesus on the Cross, when he is supposed to saved him in their beliefs at that time...did Jesus did something or he disobeyed the Father in some way that cause the Father to depart from him? But to the Father and Jesus it is quite different why Jesus had to say those words and to say them at that moment just before he died. Jesus had to stay alive so all the prophetic about him had to be fulfilled first, even when he said he given to drink the wine vinegar from the Roman soldier. And all the prophetic of Isaiah 53 had to be fulfilled and the prophetic in the Psalms.... When everything was done and the Father had informed Jesus that he is in his will... The Father left Jesus, because that was the time for Jesus Christ to die... Jesus experience that, when the Father left him alone, and he also knew that the moment for him to died had come... The Father could be with him as long as Jesus was alive, and not after Jesus Christ died because when Jesus Christ died he went to the place of the dead...or descend to the place of the dead. He went there alone, the Father could not go there with him, but Jesus still had with him the words of the Father in his heart... That also tells us that Jesus died...this is also a witness that Jesus indeed died...and Jesus left his dead body and the Father could not follow him there because this was the place of the dead and that's it was only possible for Jesus to go there, he had to die first. As to complete his mission in that place and go to Abraham and David and John the Baptist...who were expecting him any time after the witness of John the Baptist and even the witness of Lazarus who was raised from the bosom of Abraham just a few days before Jesus death... That also tell us that Jesus when he died did not go to Heaven... The Father was not waiting for Jesus to die so he can take him to Heaven with him...no that was not his proposed for being with Jesus during that time.... the Father and Jesus both of them knew what will happen and Jesus knew that his time to die had come when the Father left him... Jesus knew that he will die and he knew that his disciples and his mother were waiting for him to come down from the Cross and before he died he told them that this will not happen...when he told to John : John this is your mother and mother this is your Son. I don't believe it, I don't know where my first reply to this went. I know it took forever and was hard to do and I will try to do it again. I really abhor that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 16, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2022 On 7/14/2022 at 11:58 AM, DeighAnn said: What was wrong with being under the law? Why weren't we just given the Holy Spirit to help us follow the law perfectly? Besides the rituals (blood sacrifice), temple and priests being all wrapped up in Christ, what else changed? I'm not sure what you mean by "The Law". If you are speaking of the ten commandments, they were not enough to satisfy the Father in living in his presence. If you follow Jesus closely he transformed the ten commandments from just physical commandments to spiritual commandments and wrapped them up in the two he gave us. For instance take the commandment against murder.... fixed it to the point that you can't even want to commit murder and not just that you can't physically do so. With this way you aren't even supposed to hate anyone without just cause. Same as having lust for your neighbors stuff and his wife. If you look upon her with lust in your heart you are already guilty of adulatory. The ten commandments do not really cover loving your neighbor as is expected for Jesus followers to do. Read Matthew chapter 25 starting with verse 40. Jesus is judging people and sending them to hell. Read that closely and you sill discover that none of the reasons given actually break any of the ten commandments... You can go to hell without breaking "the law". People ask, "Am I my brothers keeper?" Well Jesus says for the most part, "Yes, you are." And that's some of the reasons that it wasn't enough to just be under the law. The laws of Moses were basically rules for us to live together here on earth, and Jesus's laws are to prepare us to live in the heavenly realm with them. The ten commandments were not enough to prepare us for that. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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