Revelation and the meaning (so-called) of 666

[Revelation Man]

On 9/26/2022 at 4:58 PM, AdHoc said:

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The Mystery (Musterion) means Secret by God's silence or to close the mouth. So, God reveals a secret to John, or interprets the dream/vision, which is only in verses 3-6. So, there is NO MYSTERY Babylon, that is a misnomer, God revealed her mystery in verses 7-18 and in Rev. 8/12/13 and 17, people just do not know how to interpret it properly. 

On 9/26/2022 at 4:58 PM, AdHoc said:

Verse 7.
Seven heads are seven Mountains or hills according to verse 9. As this is a world wide affair, we must look for a place among the six world powers that has seven hills. There are some obscure places with seven hills, but only one that is connected to a world power. That is Rome.
Ten horns are ten kings according to verse 12. A king is a male monarch. I assume that if God had meant something else, He would have said so. I find no reason to chnage the meaning of scripture. These ten are prolific in Daniel and Revelation

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

No, no, no, no, no, we are not looking for ONE PLACE, because we know the 7 Kingdoms were in various places, so that theory or understanding makes no sense brother. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome are/were the 6 Kingdoms who have "Beasted over Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region". ONE WILL COME (Anti-Christ) who will do the exact same thing and he will arise amongst the 10 (10 = Completeness) which means Complete Europe who make up old Rome (Europe/E.U.). He will also Conquer Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region. 

So, this Beast John is shown ALWAYS REPRESENTS those seven powers, it never changes. What changes is which Beast is being designated, in each situation. We have Satan in Chapter 12 as the designated "Beast Power" being spoken of, in Luke 4 we see he tried to sway Jesus by offering him all the kingdoms of the whole world which he stated had been given unto him. So, not only are those 7 powers under him but so is the whole world, Paul said Satan is the god of this world. This is also why the Crowns are on the 7 Heads which cover over a 3000 year period. 

In Rev. 13 the designated individual is the end time Anti-Christ, that why the Crowns are on the 10 horns, he's over Europe in his lifespan, one generation per se. Then in Rev. 17 that will be the Scarlet Colored Beast, he's a Demon named Apollyon whom God placed in the Bottomless Pit during the Church Age. Thus he WAS....IS NOT but YET IS. He will be freed when the Anti-Christ comes to power at the first woe. Both Apollyon and the end time Anti-Christ are spoken of in Rev. 17. The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time.

Thus The Woman (False Religion) has been mingled with all of these "Governments" throughout time, that is why they do not serve the one true God. Egypt worshiped the sun god and many gods, as did Assyria, we know Babylon is noted for her many false gods and her horoscope etc. etc. Persia followed suite and they worship Allah today. Greece and Rome built grand temples unto Zeus  and Jupiter etc. etc. The Last Beast or Anti-Christ will demand to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD, that is why he and his Kings (Europe) will KILL OFF the Woman (forbid all Religion even False Religion) in Rev. 17:16. Remember in Daniel 9:27 where it says he will take away THE SACRIFICE? That simply means he will forbid Jesus Worship, along with forbidding the worshiping of any god but him, he will thus forbid Allah worship also, and kill off many , many Muslims, mark my words. But this Scarlet Colored beast is not the Anti-Christ nor Satan, that is why he has NO CROWNS on the 7 Heads nor the 10 Horns, he is of them, thus he is an 8th king also (he is over the Bottomless Pit) but he is not a human so he can not be a human earth king, he is just placed over Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan.

So, why prey tell would these Seven Powers ever reside in ONE PLACE? They don't sir, you are confusing the meaning brother. This is simply God telling us the Woman (All False Religion) has MINGLED with every one of these Governments, and Apollyon was ruling with her in every case (we battle Powers and Principalities in high places Paul said), then he gets locked in the bottomless pit and the 7 Headed Beast gets a Mortal Wound and goes away for 2000 years so to speak until these very end times revives it via the Anti-Christ conquering Israel/Jerusalem and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, as Dan. 11:40-43 shows us.

On 9/26/2022 at 4:58 PM, AdHoc said:

Verse 8.
A "Beast". In Daniel, once, a Beast is a world power. In every other mention it means a man. This Beast was, then was not and then he comes out of the bottomless pit. No World power did this. The language is used elsewhere in scripture for a man who dies and is resurrected - like Jesus. The place of the dead is Hades "in the heart of the earth". That would be a deep pit. No nations go to a bottomless pit ever in the Bible. But a man might if he dies. Likewise, perdition is a state of torment. World powers never go to perdition, nor can they suffer torment like a man.

Another misunderstanding good sir, as I pointed out above, NO MAN can be of the 7, only a Demon spirit can be of all 7 Kingdoms, his name is Apollyon. You are confusing a MAN DYING and returning, with a Demon being locked in the bottomless pit. The reason Scarlet and Purple are given in Rev. 17 is the Demon is a Scarlet Beast and the Woman has on Scarlet & Purple, which of course represents Government and Religious Orders,  the dyes to make Purple and Scarlet were very, very expensive, thus exclusive to the wealthy, or Government officials and Religious Orders. Basically God is telling us the Woman (False Religion) RIDES on these Government Entities backs until the LAST BEAST and he then changes course from all of he others and kills her off as Rev. 17:16 says. (he Forbids ALL RELIGION save for Beast Worship).

On 9/26/2022 at 4:58 PM, AdHoc said:

Verse 10-11
These eight kings are different to the ten kings who give their power to the Beast for they die. The Beast is one of them. That is, he will die, which supports my understanding of verse 8. "Seven" is the full number in time. Seven then means the full amount of kings from Rome. Eight is the number of resurrection for Jesus was raised "on the morrow after the Sabbath". They must be real kings for John says that one is ruling as he writes. If so, these kings are male monarchs and the beast is one of them. He must be a man. Only men are resurrected. The Beast must be one of the five, but fallen and resurrected to return as the eighth. The Beast goes into perdition. Only a man and angels can experience "perdition".

Yes, the 10 = COMPLETE Europe whom the Last Beast/Anti-Christ/Little Horn (one of the 7) is over, the 8th is a Demon which is ALSO a King (thus the 8th king in the STORY here) who was of the 7 AND is an 8th in that he is the King of the Bottomless Pit see Revelation chapter 9. So, the Destroyer/Apollyon was over Egypt and tried to kill off Israel, as he did via Assyria and the Northern Kingdoms. He took Israel into Bondage with Babylon, God then used Cyrus to free the Jews but of course they had to still pay taxes to Persia and were ruled over by Persia. Apollyon then used Greece and Antiochus to try and wipe out Israel but via the Maccabean Revolt Israel survived. Then he used Rome to finally sack Israel and Jerusalem thinking he had victory, but God then locked him in the pit for 2000 years. By the way, in Dan. 12 Apollyon is the Demon that RESISTED Michael for 21 days. So he is OF THE SEVEN.....and he is an 8th.

You are going down the whole RCC thing, its just not factual, its Satan throwing out a head fake as is the whole Joel Richardson's "The Anti-Christ is a  Muslim understanding. 

No, Perdition is Judgment and hellfire.

On 9/26/2022 at 4:58 PM, AdHoc said:

Verse 12.
By the rules of exegesis, if you give the Beast a designation as a world power, you have to do the same with the ten other kings. This makes eleven world powers are John's time. This creates an historical absurdity.

I have not a single reason to call the beast a world power. He performs like a living man who was dead and is resurrected. From verse 10 onward he is called a "he". Throughout he is called a king - a male monarch. I feel that to call him anything else but a man would be to deny the evidence.
 

10 simply means COMPLETENESS, so Europe is where the Anti-Christ is BORN INTO the E.U. or AMONGST the 10 or simply put, he is born in the E.U. By the way, Dan. 8:9 MANDATES that he is born in Greece. So, the reason the 7th Beast has CROWNS on the 10 horns or kings is he rules is OVER THEM, they are not over anything per se, they RULE with the Beast, but they freely give him his power, meaning is does not conquer them, they ELECT HIM (the E.U. Parliament). The whole Dead man being Resurrected goes against scriptures, you are conflating Apollyon (Rev. 17) with the Anti-Christ in Rev. 13.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Starise]

It is interesting to note 666 is part of all product codes as scanned by computers for identification or so I have been informed. If true, it might not escape many that this 'system' is a huge part of buying and selling presently.

It probably also hasn't escaped many that consolidation of large food enterprises and distribution systems has been happening and is only becoming more so, to the point that smaller operations are almost non existent in some locations.

The rest of the thinking coming from these sorts of developments is obvious and has been on the radar of many believers for a long time, ever since the early tech was developed.

My thoughts on the end times anti-christ are that he will come from a pervading evil spirit that has been working for a very long time toward the goals put forth n Revelation, Daniel and other books.

When I say this it might seem as if it's only a concept I've dreamed up, let me explain to all of you that I have done reserach into many of the organizations occult in nature. Almost ALL of them are looking for their man. Someone who will be their messiah. No they don't call him a messiah, but they look at this individual as someone who will lead the world to peace and unity THROUGH DISASSEMBLY AND DESTRUCTION. 

Disassembly of society as we know it and reassembly into a kingdom for the person they are looking for. Tearing down to build something else. This is not some out there theory. This is very real and very well planned. It's happening. The preparations for 'him'.  Muslims are looking for their person.  Jews are looking for their person. Those in the occult are looking for their person. These organizations are intertwined with one main goal.

My thoughts are maybe similar to those who see the AC coming from Rome. I will not go so far as to say he will be an emperor. Remember we have both the beast AND the FALSE prophet. 

There are those from every religion who are willing to break from their traditions to change the dynamic of what their religion teaches to have a one world religion, in addition to those who are looking for this man to come. We will know who he is when he comes, they will be deceived into thinking he is the answer for the world, yet they will also recognize the things about him that will set off their alarm that this is him. We will see him the deceiver and they will see him the messiah.

All temporary of course because he is very short lived here in this earth.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Mystery (Musterion) means Secret by Gid's silence or to close the mouth. So, God reveals a secret to John, or interprets the dream/vision, which is only in verses 3-6. So, there 9s NO MYSTERY Babylon, that is a misnomer, God revealed her mystery in verses 7-18 and in Rev. 8, people just do not know how to interpret it properly. 

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

No, no, no, no, no, we are not looking for ONE PLACE, because we know the 7 Kingdoms were in various places, so that theory or understanding makes no sense brother. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome are/were the 6 Kingdoms who have "Beasted over Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region". ONE WILL COME (Anti-Christ) who will do the exact same thing and he will arise amongst the 10 (Completeness) which means Complete Europe who make up old Rome (Europe). He will also Conquer Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region. 

So, this Beast John is shown ALWAYS REPRESENTS those seven powers, it never changes. What changes is which Beast is being designated, in each situation. You have Satan in Chapter 12 as the designated "Beast Power" being spoken of, in Luke 4 we see he tried to sway Jesus by gibing him all the kingdoms of the whole world which he stated had been given  unto him. So, not only are those 7 powers under him but so is the whole world, Paul said Satan is the god of this world. This is also why the Crowns are on the 7 Heads which cover over a 3000 year period. 

In Rev. 13 the designated individual is the end time Anti-Christ, that why the Crowns are on the 10 horns, he's over Europe in his lifespan, one generation per se. Then in Rev. 17 this is the Scarlet Colored Beast, he's a Demon named Apollyon whom God placed in the Bottomless Pit during the Church Age. Thus he WAS....IS NOT but YET IS. He will be freed when the Anti-Christ comes to power at the first woe. Both he and the ed time Anti-Christ are spoken of in Rev. 17. Thew Harlot s ALL FALASE RELIGION of All Time.

Thus The Woman (False Religion) has been mingled with all of these Governments throughout time, that is why they do not serve the one true God. Egypt worshiped the sun god and many gods, as did Assyria, we know Babylon is noted for her many false gods and her horoscope etc. etc. Persia followed suite and they worship Allah today. Greece and Rome built grand temples unto Zeus  and Jupiter etc. etc. The Last Beast will demand to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD, that is why he and his Kings (Europe) will KILL OFF the Woman (forbid all Religion even False Religion) in Rev. 17:16. Remember in Daniel:9:27 where it says he will take away THE SACRIFICE? That simply means he will forbid Jesus Worship, along with forbidding the worshiping of any god but him, he will this forbid Allah worship also, and kill of many Muslims, mark my words. But this Scarlet Colored beast is not the Anti-Christ now Satan, that is why he has NO CROWNS on the 7 Heads nor the 10 Horns, he is of them, thus hes an 8th king (of the Bottomless Pit) but he is not a human so he can not be a human earth king, he is just placed over Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan.

So, why prey tell would these Seven Powers ever reside in ONE PLACE? They don't you are confusing the meaning brother. This is simply God telling us the Woman (False Religion) has MINGLED with every one of these Governments, and Apollyon was ruling with her in ever case (we battle Powers and Principalities in high places Paul said), then he gets locked in the bottomless pit and the Beasts goes away for 2000 years so to speak until these very end times revives it via the Anti-Christ conquers Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, as Dan. 11:40-43 shows us.

Another misunderstanding good sir, as I pointed out above, NO MAN can be of the 7, only a Demon spirit, his name is Apollyon. You are confusing a MAN DYING and returning, with a Demon being locked in the bottomless pit. The reason Scarlet and Purple are given in Rev. 17 is the Demon is a Scarlet Beast and the Woman has on Purple, which represents Gov. and Religious Orders,  the dyes to make Purple and Scarlet were very, very expensive, thus exclusive to the wealthy, or Government officials and Religious Orders. Basically God is telling us the Woman (False Religion) RIDES on these Government Entities backs until the LAST BEAST and he kills her off as Rev. 17:16 says. (Forbids ALL RELIGION save for Beast Worship).

Yes, the 10 = COMPLETE Europe whom the Last Beast (one of the 7) is over, the 8th is a Demon which is ALSO a King (thus the 8th king in the STORY here) who was of the 7 AND is an 8th in that he is the King of the Bottomless Pit see Rev. chapter 9. So, the Destroyer/Apollyon was over Egypt and tried to kill off Israel, as he di via Assyria. He took the into Bondage with Babylon, Gid then used Cyrus to free the Jews but of course that had to still pay taxes to Persia and were ruled by them. Apollyon the used Greece and Antiochus to try and wipe out Israel but via the Maccabean Revolt Israel survived. Then he used Rome to finally sack Israel and Jerusalem thinking he had victory, but God them locked him in the pit for 2000 years. By the way, in Dan. 12 Apollyon is the Deon that RESISTED Michael for 21 days. So he is OF THE SEVEN.....and he is an 8th.

You are going down the whole RCC thing, its just not factual, its Satan throwing out a head fake as is the whole Joel Richardson's "The Anti-Christ is a  Muslim understanding. 

No, Perdition is Judgment and hellfire.

10 simply means COMPLETENESS, so Europe is where the Anti-Christ is BORN INTO the E.U. or AMONGST the 10 or simply put, he is born in the E.U. By the way, Dan. 8:9 MANDATES that he is born in Greece. So, the reason the 7th Beast has CROWNS on the 10 is he rule is OVER THEM, they are not over anything, they RULE with the Beast, but they freely give him his power, meaning is does not conquer them, they ELECT HIM (the E.U. Parliament). The whole Dead and Resurrected goes against scriptures, you are conflating Apollyon (Rev. 17) with the Anti-Christ in Rev. 13.

Each of us sees things and doesn't see other things. I am unable to match the grammar of these verses with your understanding. Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Chapter 2 is not obscure. There are FOUR powers that scripture says "rule all the earth". The fifth will be Christ's. They each have an element to designate the king and his political system. Historically, each world power since Egypt has had the same religious system.

I appreciate your freedom to interpret what you perceive, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

God bless

[Revelation Man]

On 9/27/2022 at 4:20 PM, AdHoc said:

Each of us sees things and doesn't see other things. I am unable to match the grammar of these verses with your understanding. Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Chapter 2 is not obscure. There are FOUR powers that scripture says "rule all the earth". The fifth will be Christ's. They each have an element to designate the king and his political system. Historically, each world power since Egypt has had the same religious system.

I appreciate your freedom to interpret what you perceive, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

God bless

There are 5 Beasts in Daniel 2 and 7, if one understands how to parse the verses out. But from Daniel on there are 5, no use in complicating the future by showing Daniel past events at that time per se. But John is being shown a vision from the Future LOOKING BACK in time, so he is shown all 7 who were over Israel. 

I let others "Interpret, I get revelation from the Lord via prayer. It is actually my calling of over 37 years. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Revelation Man

[teddyv]

I go with the simplest, most contextual interpretation: Nero. 

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

There are 5 Beasts in Daniel 2 and 7, if one understand how to parse the verses out. But from Dan9el on there are 5, no use in complicating the future by showing Daniel past events at that time per se. But John is being shown a vision from the Future LOOKING BACK in time, so he is shown all 7 who were over Israel. 

 

I let other "Interpret, I get revelation from the Lord via prayer. It is actually my calling of over 37 years. 

I'm sure its a typo, but there are no prophetic "Beasts" in Daniel Chapter 2. Maybe you meant 5 world powers because you count the toes as another. This is a common understanding.

The trouble with direct revelation from the Lord is that no one can check it. The Lord called the Bereans "more noble" for checking a teaching against the Word of God (Act.17:11). It would seem that Daniel brought great honor to God by interpreting. You admitted that you are interpreting by the use of "parsing".

But nevertheless, go well brother.

[Revelation Man]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:59 AM, AdHoc said:

I'm sure its a typo, but there are no prophetic "Beasts" in Daniel Chapter 2. Maybe you meant 5 world powers because you count the toes as another. This is a common understanding.

The trouble with direct revelation from the Lord is that no one can check it. The Lord called the Bereans "more noble" for checking a teaching against the Word of God (Act.17:11). It would seem that Daniel brought great honor to God by interpreting. You admitted that you are interpreting by the use of "parsing".

But nevertheless, go well brother.

Not a typo, I just do not accept Nebuchadnezzars version, he saw them as precious metals, God showed them to Daniel for what they really are, Beasts. God showed him what God needed to show Nebuchadnezzar, but God showed Daniel the truth. 

If Daniel had told Nebuchadnezzar he was an "Evil Beast" then its off with the head. So, God showed him a dream that stated he was the Greatest of Greats, pure gold. 

Funny, we are checking Daniel, Ezekiel and Paul/Peter every day, the Holy Spirit testifies or confirms the Holy Spirit, I can hear a person for the first time ever and in 5 to 10 minutes know if he is speaking from the Holy Spirit or from himself.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Revelation Man

[tatwo]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:59 AM, AdHoc said:

The trouble with direct revelation from the Lord is that no one can check it.

AdHoc...not sure what you actually mean here...but...

I will say this...there is no trouble with direct revelation from the Lord...it is absolutely "natural" and essential for Spirit life in the kingdom of God on earth today...He told us that Himself...It needs no one to check it either...if it is from the Lord Yahshua...it is attended by the two witnesses...those who are "mature" in their discernment know that.

Tatwo...:)

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Not a typo, I just do not accept Nebuchadnezzars version, he saw them as precious metals, God showed them to Daniel for what they really are, Beasts. God showed him what God needed to show Nebuchadnezzar, but God showed Daniel the truth. 

If Daniel had told Nebuchadnezzar he was an "Evil Beast" then its off with the head. So, God showed him a dream that stated he was the Greatest of Greats, pure gold. 

Funny, we are checking Daniel, Ezekiel and Paul/Peter every day, the Holy Spirit testifies or confirms the Holy Spirit, I can hear a person for the first time ever and in 5 to 10 minutes know if he is speaking from the Holy Spirit or from himself.

I accord you your right to see things as you see, but God did not give any "version" to Nebuchadnezzar. He gave it to Daniel. And God did not hold back anything to save Daniel. His interpretation of the vision in Chapter 4 brought praise and Daniel's sojourn in the lions den is proof that God did not hold back.

I personally would not disregard what is written. The elements did not show the morality of the king. They showed the strength of the kingdom. Nebuchadnezzar is not designated as gold for being moral. He is designated that because his kingdom was an autocratic monarchy - the same as Christ's Kingdom when it comes to earth. The next kingdom was "inferior" and given the element of silver because Cyrus and company were subject to the nobility - an Aristocracy. The weakest of all is "clay" - the rule of men, or, Democracy.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, tatwo said:

AdHoc...not sure what you actually mean here...but...

I will say this...there is no trouble with direct revelation from the Lord...it is absolutely "natural" and essential for Spirit life in the kingdom of God on earth today...He told us that Himself...It needs no one to check it either...if it is from the Lord Yahshua...it is attended by the two witnesses...those who are "mature" in their discernment know that.

Tatwo...:)

O.K. You are right. My answer was within the context of one brother claiming insight against the grammar of what was  written. If you divorce the context, you are correct. Each of us MUST receive personal revelation concerning the Word.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you (Jn.14:26)

Go well bro.