The Father

[JohnD]

Isaiah 44:24 (AV)
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Also, the Father is not the redeemer. The Father is the one to whom the redemption price is paid. The Son is the redeemer of humankind.

[JohnD]

From Adam and Eve to the last human to draw breath on planet Earth, God has given his corporeal (and angelical) beings the choice to either believe and follow him or not to.

That ability to choose levied an excruciatingly high price to all (especially to God). It would have been easier for God to have simply created the angelic race as automatons (no ability to choose) as some Orthodox Jewish factions teach. Negating the need for the creation of the human race / physical realm.**

** Why were we created? To glorify God who Created us (John 17:5 / Revelation 13:8).

Evil is the result of not choosing God or his way. The prolongation of the plan of God and the number of generations of mankind to enable actual choice to mankind... and certain concessions / condescension of God (like the monarchy of Israel in 1 Samuel 8). Part and parcel of the Grace God has extended to mankind since Genesis 3 to this very day. He could have wiped out humanity in Eden and walked away justified. Mankind made their choice after all. But he gave Grace instead.

 

[JohnD]

A major compromise on God's part was in the building of the first Jewish temple.

Shmuel II 7: (2 Samuel 7:) Chabad Tanakh

12 When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers, then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom.		יבכִּ֣י | יִמְלְא֣וּ יָמֶ֗יךָ וְשָֽׁכַבְתָּ֙ אֶת־אֲבֹתֶ֔יךָ וַהֲקִימֹתִ֚י אֶֽת־זַרְעֲךָ֙ אַחֲרֶ֔יךָ אֲשֶׁ֥ר יֵצֵ֖א מִמֵּעֶ֑יךָ וַהֲכִינֹתִ֖י אֶת־מַמְלַכְתּֽוֹ:
13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.		יגה֥וּא יִבְנֶה־בַּ֖יִת לִשְׁמִ֑י וְכֹנַנְתִּ֛י אֶת־כִּסֵּ֥א מַמְלַכְתּ֖וֹ עַד־עוֹלָֽם:
14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to Me a son; so that when he goes astray I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the sons of Adam.		ידאֲנִי֙ אֶהְיֶה־לּ֣וֹ לְאָ֔ב וְה֖וּא יִהְיֶה־לִּ֣י לְבֵ֑ן אֲשֶׁר֙ בְּהַ֣עֲו‍ֹת֔וֹ וְהֹֽכַחְתִּיו֙ בְּשֵׁ֣בֶט אֲנָשִׁ֔ים וּבְנִגְעֵ֖י בְּנֵ֥י אָדָֽם:
Zechariah 6: Cahbad Tanakh 11 And you shall take silver and gold, and you shall make crowns, and place [them] upon the head of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the High Priest.   יאוְלָֽקַחְתָּ֥ כֶֽסֶף־וְזָהָ֖ב וְעָשִׂ֣יתָ עֲטָר֑וֹת וְשַׂמְתָּ֗ בְּרֹ֛אשׁ יְהוֹשֻׁ֥עַ בֶּן־יְהוֹצָדָ֖ק הַכֹּהֵ֥ן הַגָּדֽוֹל: 12 And you shall speak to him, saying, "So said the Lord of Hosts, saying: Behold a man whose name is the Shoot, who will spring up out of his place and build the Temple of the Lord.   יבוְאָֽמַרְתָּ֚ אֵלָיו֙ לֵאמֹ֔ר כֹּ֥ה אָמַ֛ר יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת לֵאמֹ֑ר הִנֵּה־אִ֞ישׁ צֶ֚מַח שְׁמוֹ֙ וּמִתַּחְתָּ֣יו יִצְמָ֔ח וּבָנָ֖ה אֶת־הֵיכַ֥ל יְהֹוָֽה: 13 And he shall build the Temple of the Lord, and he shall bear glory. And he shall sit and rule on his throne, and the priest shall be on his throne. And a counsel of peace shall be between them [both].   יגוְ֠הוּא יִבְנֶ֞ה אֶת־הֵיכַ֚ל יְהֹוָה֙ וְהֽוּא־יִשָּׂ֣א ה֔וֹד וְיָשַׁ֥ב וּמָשַׁ֖ל עַל־כִּסְא֑וֹ וְהָיָ֚ה כֹהֵן֙ עַל־כִּסְא֔וֹ וַֽעֲצַ֣ת שָׁל֔וֹם תִּֽהְיֶ֖ה בֵּ֥ין שְׁנֵיהֶֽם: The name for Jesus (Joshua) the High Priest, son of YHVH the Righteous (Jehozadak) interesting Whose name is "the Shoot" ** (see below)  Is to be the one to build the temple of the LORD And a priest who reigns upon his throne As the council between *** (see below) ** Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 11: 1 And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of Jesse, and a twig shall sprout from his roots.   אוְיָצָ֥א חֹ֖טֶר מִגֶּ֣זַע יִשָׁ֑י וְנֵ֖צֶר מִשָּֽׁרָשָׁ֥יו יִפְרֶֽה: 2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, a spirit of wisdom and understanding, a spirit of counsel and heroism, a spirit of knowledge and fear of the Lord.   בוְנָחָ֥ה עָלָ֖יו ר֣וּחַ יְהֹוָ֑ה ר֧וּחַ חָכְמָ֣ה וּבִינָ֗ה ר֚וּחַ עֵצָה֙ וּגְבוּרָ֔ה ר֥וּחַ דַּ֖עַת וְיִרְאַ֥ת יְהֹוָֽה:   *** Iyov (Job) 9: 32 For He is not man like me, that I should answer Him, 'Let us come together in debate.'   לבכִּֽי־לֹא־אִ֣ישׁ כָּמ֣וֹנִי אֶֽעֱנֶ֑נּוּ נָב֥וֹא יַ֜חְדָּ֗ו בַּמִּשְׁפָּֽט: 33 There is no arbiter between us, who will place his hand on both of us.   לגלֹ֣א יֵֽשׁ־בֵּינֵ֣ינוּ מוֹכִ֑יחַ יָשֵׁ֖ת יָד֣וֹ עַל־שְׁנֵֽינוּ: Dabar Elohiym / Dabar YHVH has since become a man Yeshua HaNotzri (the Shoot / the Branch) that very arbiter / Daysman between God and man.

Edited August 13, 2022 by JohnD

[Keiw1]

15 hours ago, JohnD said:

Nope. You are not going to try to parse your way out of what scripture clearly states.

Isaiah 44:24 (AV)
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Colossians 1:16 (AV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:3 (AV)
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus is YHVH incarnate.

You lose Keiwi.

 

I dont lose because 1 teaching proves your error--The LORD said to my Lord(Jesus)--which actually reads- YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)

[Keiw1]

15 hours ago, JohnD said:

I showed you in John 8:58 - 59 where Jesus made just that claim.

The Bible carries a lot more weight than your say so / denials.

 

John 8:58 says no such thing. Jesus was asked if he lived before Abraham, he answered honestly that he did live before Abraham. Your teachers twist it into something its not. The reason why trinity translation put-i am that i am in the OT. It does not belong there. I will be what i will be is the correct translation of that Hebrew written statement made by God to Moses. Your translations are erred by satans will and have caused your house divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand. Jesus is not with a divided house-1Cor 1:10

[Keiw1]

15 hours ago, JohnD said:

God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" 

ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם

From Chabad.org

You will note the interpretation / translation in parenthesis meaning tradition rather than original text / manuscript.

In fact, ehyeh asher ehyeh is without time specification.

I AM / I WAS / I WILL BE

BECAUSE

I AM / I WAS / I WILL BE

Or in the Greek NT:

Revelation 1:8 (AV)
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

And according to the Hebrew names that include YAH, the clear reference is to I AM.

John 8:58 is immediately followed by verse 59 where the Jew3s in company who did not believe Jesus is YHVH incarnate took up stones to stone him for blasphemy. They would not have done so for merely claiming to be alive before Abraham as you suggest.

Your dilemma is with the Word of God.

Then when those same Israelite teachers said Jesus receives his power from satan, you must believe them there to. Otherwise it is fact--hearts filled with hatred do not speak truth.

Rev 1:8 is Jehovah, not Jesus.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Keiw1 said:

Rev 1:8 is Jehovah, not Jesus.

Jesus is/was and will always be, Jehovah    (YAHWEH)   Jehovah was not and is not the Father.

[Keiw1]

5 minutes ago, other one said:

Jesus is/was and will always be, Jehovah    (YAHWEH)   Jehovah was not and is not the Father.

You are mistaken--- In the OT it says--YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) --proving 100% Jesus is not YHWH. There is no other name for God-YHWH(Jehovah) he is the Father, he is greater than Jesus. Jesus is his image, not him( Coll 1:15)

[other one]

Just now, Keiw1 said:

You are mistaken--- In the OT it says--YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) --proving 100% Jesus is not YHWH. There is no other name for God-YHWH(Jehovah) he is the Father, he is greater than Jesus. Jesus is his image, not him( Coll 1:15)

Yahweh is the God of Israel.  Moses, Aaron and 74 others went up and saw the God of Israel (Yahweh), though Jesus told us that no one has ever seen the father.

When Moses asked Yahweh his name, he was told to tell them I AM.   When Jesus was accused of things and he basically told them that he was before Abraham...   Referred to himself as I AM.

Jesus has always been the Father's representative  when it came to humans...    And always will be.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, other one said:

Jesus is/was and will always be, Jehovah    (YAHWEH)   Jehovah was not and is not the Father.

Uh, actually YHVH / the LORD actually applies to all three in the Godhead. Think of it like a surname.

Isaiah 53:10 (AV)
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

the LORD = the Father in this verse

him = Jesus

And as you pointed out, Jesus is YHVH / the LORD (John 1:3 / Isaiah 44:24)

And the Holy Spirit is YHVH / the LORD:

2 Corinthians 3:17 (AV)
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

But the majority of times YHVH is referred to in the Bible / Tanakh it refers to the preincarnate Jesus.