WHERE does the SPIRITUAL BODY go when the flesh dies? UP or down

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

You have many hurdles to clear in order to make the beliefs you seem to have work.

-two resurrections at different times

-two bodies

The bible does not support either so far as I can see. Nothing you have shown makes a case for these opinions. 

In my opinion the resurrection and 'soul keeping' are two different things unless you can show me otherwise in a clear can't be denied sort of way.

two resurrections at different times

FIRST RESURRECTION of the SAVED who NEVER DIE

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive YOU UNTO MYSELF  that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


A  2ND RESURRECTION

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

A 3rd RESURRECTION

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


A 4TH RESURRECTION

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

A 5th RESURRECTION

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

A 6th RESURRECTION

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Also includes Enoch and Elijah


A 7th RESURRECTION

BORN AGAIN

An 8th Resurrection

FROM MILK TO MEAT

 

[Starise]

10 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

First thank you for allowing me to use all the colors and CAPITOLS I WANT, MUCH APPRECIATED as I haven't ever been given that before!!!

Sarcasm duly noted.

11 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Where do you read immediately here?

12 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Or here?????? 

13 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Or here? And the two bodies???? Nope I didn't think so. Anything at all about a body completed like the body of Jesus showing up in heaven immediately after death.

In fact 15:43 talks about a body being raised in glory. RAISED IN GLORY. 

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

To get around the resurrection of the saved dead which comes in the future
I am not trying  'to get around it'  as I DON'T BELIEVE it is written anywhere. 

1.  I have never seen ANY 'SAVED DEAD' written OF in the words of God.  at least not since Christ Himself was risen. 
2.  I believe The future resurrection is of the UNSAVED DEAD because only those who have NOT BEEN SAVED can be DEAD  

It is written ALL OVER!! Both the saved AND the unsaved die physically.

18 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

you claim there must be two bodies. 
1.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
2.
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

NO! It's only ONE body rebuilt by God at resurrection. Show me one place where this is two bodies in the text you have quoted??????

20 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The bible only speaks of a resurrection of the saved dead 

The bible NEVER speaks of a 'saved dead'.    A soul has EITHER been
1.  made alive and NEVER DIES, 
2. remains DEAD and then DIES.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

 

6 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

NOTE- THE DEAD IN CHRIST 

These are the saved dead.

24 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You don't see how the spirit of a person could exist apart from a body, yet our spirit was made before God put it in our bodies. It existed before the body. Why couldn't it exist in some form after the body? 

1.  
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image,

2.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

3.
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

The text tells us God created man in His own 'image'. What does this have to do with where the soul is??? 

Ecclesiates 12:7 

and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
    and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

The physical body is NOT mentioned here. Only the Spirit returns to the Lord who made it. Our spirit comes from God and returns to God at death.

33 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The bible says there will be a future resurrection of the saved dead

I can find no answer you have given on 
1.   A 'SAVED DEAD'
2.  a future resurrection of a SAVED DEAD.

SAVED DEAD= 1 THESS 4:14

For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

These are the saved dead. 

 

39 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

who will be somehow miraculously reconstituted into beings

I can find NO ANSWER GIVEN on
1.  a 'miraculously reconstituted'

WE are playing with simple terminologies now. We can say this in a number of different ways. A 'new creature' , 'a resurrected man or woman in a new body'

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

King James Version

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

What does that last sentence tell us? Why.............................................wait for it.............it tells us we will be "miraculously reconsituted". RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE.

43 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

1.  A 'SAVED DEAD'
2.  a future resurrection of a SAVED DEAD.
3.  a 'miraculously reconstituted' EVENT taking place
4.  heavenly 'bodies' being reconstituted
OR 
4a. 'spirits' without bodies being reconstituted.  


Your answers for the above

1.  
2.
3
4

 

1. SAVED DEAD

6 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

NOTE- THE DEAD IN CHRIST 

These are the saved dead.

2. A future resurrection of the saved dead. See the above ^^^^^^^^^

3. Miraculously reconstituted

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

King James Version

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

4. Spirits without bodies being reconstituted

I don't believe I ever claimed this. These were your words. 

I believe the final end at resurrection will be us complete in new 'reconstituted' bodies. 

Our souls or spirits are presently with the Lord if we are believers.

 

[Starise]

40 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

This isn't immediately is it?

41 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive YOU UNTO MYSELF  that where I am, there ye may be also.

Not immediately. Future.

42 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Two resurrections, two events at two different times. One for the just under the blood of Christ. One for the unsaved to condemnation.

43 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This is the resurrection of the unjust. Note- "death and hell"

44 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Matt 27:52 proves my point. If they were in heaven why were they sleeping?

This was to be an example to the rest of us at Christ's reusrrection as to how it will happen for all of us one day unless we are of those who are alive and remain.

47 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

20:35-"resurrection FROM the dead" a future event. We will not marry or be given in marriage after resurrection. 

God is the God of the LIVING. We all live in Christ, yet all of the dead sleep in Christ if they are believers.

51 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The physically alive at this time go to be with the Lord.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Our MORTAL bodies are quickened

2349. thnétos ►
Strong's Concordance
thnétos: subject to death
Original Word: θνητός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: thnétos
Phonetic Spelling: (thnay-tos')
Definition: subject to death
Usage: mortal, subject to death.
HELPS Word-studies
2349 thnētós – properly, subject to dying (death), mortality; the inevitability of physical death.


The DEAD who ARE resurrected out from the DEAD, out of the corruption,  rise up in a spiritual body, THOUGH IT REMAINS MORTAL. 


 

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood
cannot inherit the kingdom of God;  neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

DO YOU understand what it says here?  

THIS SPECIFICIALLY  SAYS

ANY BODY raised up FROM THE EARTH DOESN'T RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY for at least 1000 years.  

5356. phthora ►
Strong's Concordance
phthora: destruction, corruption
Original Word: φθορά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: phthora
Phonetic Spelling: (fthor-ah')
Definition: destruction, corruption
Usage: corruption, destruction, decay, rottenness, decomposition.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5356 phthorá (from 5351 /phtheírō) – destruction from internal corruption (deterioration, decay); "rottenness, perishableness, corruption, decay, decomposition" (Souter). See 5351 (phteírō).


861. aphtharsia ►
Strong's Concordance
aphtharsia: incorruptibility
Original Word: ἀφθαρσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: aphtharsia
Phonetic Spelling: (af-thar-see'-ah)
Definition: incorruptibility
Usage: indestructibility, incorruptibility; hence: immortality.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 861 aphtharsía – properly, no-corruption (unable to experience deterioration); incorruptibility (not perishable), i.e. lacking the very capacity to decay or constitutionally break down. See 862a (aphthartos).

 

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body,

death of the first body that any man can kill

but are not able to kill the soul:

but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

GOD CAN AND DOES KILL THE SOUL AND SPIRITUAL BODY raised up from incorruption.  


But the dead RISE UP in a Spiritual body, BUT A spiritual body and SOUL that CAME FROM THE CORRUPTION of death, the grave yet  they REMAIN MORTAL.  The dead still have to face judgement in 1000 years. 

It is only at the GWTJ that someone  RAISED UP FROM CORRUPTION will find out if their names are in the book of life or if they face the 2nd death. 



 

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

That isn't Jesus returning to this REALM (seen) as much as it is this realm becoming His (presently unseen)

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


In summary

Life death and resurrection of a SAVED SOUL

Born in the flesh
Hear the word and MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST (spiritual death of flesh and spiritual resurrection to heaven in CHRIST, so WHILE STILL in the natural body MADE A NEW CREATURE, the spiritual SEED planted in the soil of NATURAL body)
When NATURAL BODY dies, the SEED receives a new body and FOLLOWs the Lord to the place He prepared
RETURNs to the earth at the 2nd Advent with Him, 
the alive and remaining changed and joined together


Life death and resurrection of an UNSAVED SOUL
Born in the flesh
remains spiritually dead, no seed produced because body not been sown
NATURAL body dies
buried  (SEED planted in the earth)
Jesus returns 
Seed planted in corruption (soil of the earth) raised up -
Their spiritual body is STILL MORTAL because still facing  2nd death
stand in judgment 1000 years later
where they either 
have name in book of life so they finally RECEIVE IMMORTALITY
or
into lake of fire (fear GOD WHO KILLS BOTH BODY AND SOUL AT 2ND DEATH

This should clear up what I believe is written and why.  

[DeighAnn]

 

45 minutes ago, Starise said:

Sarcasm duly noted.

So was yours

 

 

47 minutes ago, Starise said:

Where do you read immediately here?

Since there was NO SORT OF DELAY in any way implied, I took what was written as being truth.  IF THERE WAS A DELAY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INDICATED.  
But the only DELAY I have ever seen put forth has been through the doctrine of man

How CONFUSING it would be if we couldn't READ ANYTHING AS truth AS it was written.  Am I supposed to ADD a delay like EVE added to what GOD SAID?  I personally don't do that to His words.  

I'll bet one can get really comfortable not taking what is written in the simplicity in which it is.  

 

52 minutes ago, Starise said:

Or here?????? 

Same thing.  THERE IS NO DELAY SUGGESTED IN THE WORDS of God, just when the doctrines of man are applied does one start to question it.  AGAIN HOW CONFUSING it would be if NOTHING WAS AS IT WAS WRITTEN.  

 

40 minutes ago, Starise said:

Two resurrections, two events at two different times. One for the just under the blood of Christ. One for the unsaved to condemnation.

of COURSE, here it specifically states BOTH so what do you do?  MAKE THEM SEPARATE.  AGAIN, No one could ever figure out what was written if EVERYTHING written meant something else.

 

55 minutes ago, Starise said:

It is written ALL OVER!! Both the saved AND the unsaved die physically.

Yes, all FLESH BODIES DIE but one body and soul goes onto CORRUPTION the other one follows to where the Lord went.  One goes to DEATH the other PASSES THROUGH DEATH.  

One death feeds on the other had Jesus taste death FOR THEM

 

44 minutes ago, Starise said:

Matt 27:52 proves my point. If they were in heaven why were they sleeping?

BECAUSE they DIED under the law of sin and death and had to pay the wages of sin.  

BUT WE DON'T, we die under the Blood of the Lamb slain that washes us free from sin

NO SIN -   NO WAGES OF DEATH TO PAY like the unsaved

 

46 minutes ago, Starise said:

20:35-"resurrection FROM the dead" a future event. We will not marry or be given in marriage after resurrection. 

God is the God of the LIVING. We all live in Christ, yet all of the dead sleep in Christ if they are believers.

FOR THE UNSAVED.  We pass through are NOT put IN BONDAGE.  

 

Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

And WHY?  because GOD doesn't want any to perish.  NOT every one heard the words of God before they died and so they never had the opportunity to be SAVED.  So they must be raised out from the dead for the Lords Day so that they too can hear the words of God.  THANK GOD THERE WILL BE SO MANY PRIESTS RUNNING AROUND TO TEACH EVERYONE

1 hour ago, Starise said:

NO! It's only ONE body rebuilt by God at resurrection. Show me one place where this is two bodies in the text you have quoted??????

There is a natural body THAT'S ONE and there is a SPIRITUAL body That's two

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

These are the saved dead.

IMPOSSIBLE

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

The text tells us God created man in His own 'image'. What does this have to do with where the soul is??? 

What is a man?  body and breath

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

The physical body is NOT mentioned here. Only the Spirit returns to the Lord who made it. Our spirit comes from God and returns to God at death.

Because the EARTH BODY doesn't go to heaven the HEAVEN BODY DOES.  

To easy?

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

SAVED DEAD= 1 THESS 4:14

For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

These are the saved dead. 

These are SAVED ALIVE and in heaven and returning with Him.  These are not in the corruption of the earth.  

Jesus raised up in a body, we raise up in a body.  

Simple.  Follow Him,  Why 'abodes' if 'air' is on its way?  

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

What does that last sentence tell us? Why.............................................wait for it.............it tells us we will be "miraculously reconsituted". RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE.

Let's see, the flesh body is corruptible, the spiritually body is not.  

Man can kill a corruptible body, only God can kill a spiritual body

Both bodies can be MORTAL as we see by THE DEAD who stand in judgement and go into the lake of fire

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

NOTE- THE DEAD IN CHRIST 

Lord of the living AND THE DEAD

DOES NOT in any way shape or form make THE DEAD into the SAVED

[Starise]

14 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The DEAD who ARE resurrected out from the DEAD, out of the corruption,  rise up in a spiritual body, THOUGH IT REMAINS MORTAL. 

 Those last 4 words are causing me to wonder how you arrived at this conclusion.

15 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood
cannot inherit the kingdom of God;  neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

DO YOU understand what it says here?  

THIS SPECIFICIALLY  SAYS

ANY BODY raised up FROM THE EARTH DOESN'T RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY for at least 1000 years.  

No it just means we can't take these fleshly bodies as they presently are into heaven. 

As I understand this, the 1000 years is a time when there will be physical men here only much much better because God is in control. Meanwhile those resurrected to ever be with the Lord will be with Him in different bodies. What people are calling the rapture happens before the millennium. Apparently others will be saved. They are those who will be here then, along with others who will be born. A golden age as I understand it, with a group down there and a group in heaven.

I admit my studies into the millennium might not be totally accurate since I am still into that study and I might not be totally correct here on this.

 

24 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body,

death of the first body that any man can kill

but are not able to kill the soul:

but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

GOD CAN AND DOES KILL THE SOUL AND SPIRITUAL BODY raised up from incorruption.  

This is a message for all of those who are unsaved. The saved need not fear because we are kept safe from destruction.

28 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

It is only at the GWTJ that someone  RAISED UP FROM CORRUPTION will find out if their names are in the book of life or if they face the 2nd death. 

Agreed.

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

That isn't Jesus returning to this REALM (seen) as much as it is this realm becoming His (presently unseen)

Agreed. This is the beginning of the millennium as I understand it. Believers who lived before the 7th trumpet are with the Lord.

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Life death and resurrection of a SAVED SOUL

Born in the flesh
Hear the word and MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST (spiritual death of flesh and spiritual resurrection to heaven in CHRIST, so WHILE STILL in the natural body MADE A NEW CREATURE, the spiritual SEED planted in the soil of NATURAL body)
When NATURAL BODY dies, the SEED receives a new body and FOLLOWs the Lord to the place He prepared
RETURNs to the earth at the 2nd Advent with Him, 
the alive and remaining changed and joined together

 

To the letters in read I would only add, "at resurrection" to the end.

36 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Life death and resurrection of an UNSAVED SOUL
Born in the flesh
remains spiritually dead, no seed produced because body not been sown
NATURAL body dies
buried  (SEED planted in the earth)
Jesus returns 
Seed planted in corruption (soil of the earth) raised up -
Their spiritual body is STILL MORTAL because still facing  2nd death
stand in judgment 1000 years later
where they either 
have name in book of life so they finally RECEIVE IMMORTALITY
or
into lake of fire (fear GOD WHO KILLS BOTH BODY AND SOUL AT 2ND DEATH

I always seen the resurrection of those UNSAVED as only about their judgement.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

This isn't immediately is it?

Yes to be absent from the body NATURAL BODY is to be present with the Lord

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Not immediately. Future.

Couldn't be before they HE DIED AND WAS RAISED.  So future to that moment, not to mention they had to finish their natural flesh life.

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

This is the resurrection of the unjust. Note- "death and hell"

Note THE DEAD who were raised when Christ returned were judged first AND THEN they gave up those who weren't in that first resurrection because THEY DID HEAR THE WORDS OF GOD AND REFUSED TO BE SAVED SO NO 'RESURRECTION' FOR THEM

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, Starise said:

 Those last 4 words are causing me to wonder how you arrived at this conclusion.

Liable to die

 

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

4 minutes ago, Starise said:

As I understand this, the 1000 years is a time when there will be physical men

who would these 'physical men' be?  Those who took the mark of the beast?  Pretty sure THAT is a death sentence.  
 

With the time being shortened for the elects sake or else no flesh would be saved, EXACTLY where do they come from.  

All the alive and remaining ARE CHANGED.  

THAT LEAVES 0 men women and children in the flesh.  

[Starise]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes to be absent from the body NATURAL BODY is to be present with the Lord

But you think it's in a state of completion right? Due to what I read about the resurrection of the dead I don't believe we will be complete yet.

5 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Couldn't be before they HE DIED AND WAS RAISED.  So future to that moment, not to mention they had to finish their natural flesh life.

Agreed.

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Note THE DEAD who were raised when Christ returned were judged first AND THEN they gave up those who weren't in that first resurrection because THEY DID HEAR THE WORDS OF GOD AND REFUSED TO BE SAVED SO NO 'RESURRECTION' FOR THEM

Exactly.

[DeighAnn]

3 minutes ago, Starise said:

But you think it's in a state of completion right? Due to what I read about the resurrection of the dead I don't believe we will be complete yet.

Agreed.

Exactly.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.


Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


The Glory comes at death, our works follow us and we then we go rest.  God gives us the body we deserve at that time.  Some 'seed' is WHEAT and some is 'of other grain'.  





This may seem to be out of left field right now and if it is no problem just something to keep in the back of your mind 

Genesis 28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.

Genesis 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Genesis 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

Genesis 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Genesis 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

Genesis 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.

Genesis 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

Genesis 28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.

Genesis 28:19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.