Is Gods word true?

[Mike Mclees]

9 minutes ago, Jayne said:

C'est la vie.  I give up.  

Have you read the other 8 visions in those six chapters?  Do you believe them literal, too?

In everything written there is a point to be made otherwise it is pointless except if it is fiction. Is this fiction?

[Jayne]

36 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

In everything written there is a point to be made otherwise it is pointless except if it is fiction. Is this fiction?

Yes, there is a point to be made in all nine of the dreams or visions.  This is not about fact or fiction.  It's about literal vs. figurative.  Fact vs. fiction is different.

There really was a Joshua, the priest.  A real man.  There really was a Zechariah the prophet.  Real man.

But God sent Zechariah a dream or vision about Joshua - the events only symbolic.  Joshua did not really appear before God in filthy clothes.  He did not literally get a clean turban for his head and most clearly of all - Joshua is not literally Jesus Christ.

The filthy clothes are the sins of the people.

The clean clothes are God's grace to people.

Joshua, if remaining faithful, is a symbol, or type, of Jesus Christ whom God calls the Branch here.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

2 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

I want to tell it like I see it. Satan wanted to exploit the high priest for being sinful while holding the position of High Priest. The filthy garments shows that he was guilty. Joshua could no longer hold the office of High Priest because of his sins represented by his unclean garments. After the Lord rebuked satan the Lord said take away his filthy garments and put new garments on him and a new mitre put on his head. The Lord did not just wash his dirty old garment of sin. He put new garments on him. The new garments took away his sins and made him new again as in regeneration. The Lord also told Joshua to walk in repentance. 

I agree. Many weird teachings exist in the church today because people want to symbolize scripture that can be taken literal. I see no reason at all that this can't be a literal event, similar to Satan and God in Job 1. Don't let people convince you to symbolize literal scripture. 

[Jayne]

2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I agree. Many weird teachings exist in the church today because people want to symbolize scripture that can be taken literal. I see no reason at all that this can't be a literal event, similar to Satan and God in Job 1. Don't let people convince you to symbolize literal scripture. 

Have you READ the book of Zechariah?  Apparently not.

It STATES that these are visions - 9 of them.  They are symbolic for events to come. Not literal.

Angel riders, horns, blacksmiths beating the horns, flying women, baskets, dirty clothes vs. clean clothes, flying scrolls that punish people, plumblines and strings to measure, gold lampstands and olive trees.

The book of Zechariah STATES that these things are visions.  Ergo - figurative language expressing a truth of God in non-literal or metaphorical way.

Please read the book before claiming that these these are literal. 

I just don't know why people don't believe me sometimes.  Is it because I am female or old or what?

 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Have you READ the book of Zechariah?  Apparently not.

It STATES that these are visions - 9 of them.  They are symbolic for events to come. Not literal.

Angel riders, horns, blacksmiths beating the horns, flying women, baskets, dirty clothes vs. clean clothes, flying scrolls that punish people, plumblines and strings to measure, gold lampstands and olive trees.

The book of Zechariah STATES that these things are visions.  Ergo - figurative language expressing a truth of God in non-literal or metaphorical way.

Please read the book before claiming that these these are literal. 

I just don't know why people don't believe me sometimes.  Is it because I am female or old or what?

 

A vision doesn't mean that it's something that isn't real. If the vision was off a literal future event, then it's still literal. I'm not sure why your confused. By the way, I've read the book. I've read the Bible cover to cover many times. I'm also not sure why your bringing age or sex into the conversation. I never mentioned either of those. 

[Your closest friendnt]

16 hours ago, Jayne said:

Have you READ the book of Zechariah?  Apparently not.

It STATES that these are visions - 9 of them.  They are symbolic for events to come. Not literal.

Angel riders, horns, blacksmiths beating the horns, flying women, baskets, dirty clothes vs. clean clothes, flying scrolls that punish people, plumblines and strings to measure, gold lampstands and olive trees.

The book of Zechariah STATES that these things are visions.  Ergo - figurative language expressing a truth of God in non-literal or metaphorical way.

Please read the book before claiming that these these are literal. 

I just don't know why people don't believe me sometimes.  Is it because I am female or old or what?

 

Joshua the High Priest  symbolized the High Priest at the time of the death of Jesus Christ...

The High Priest after the death of Jesus and at the time the disciples preached the Gospel to him, the various times Peter appeared before the High Priest and the Scribes at that time when the High Priest did not believe in Jesus Christ then he was found to be in his sins...

Because the Atonement under the Law it was set aside...for this reason the High Preist to whom Peter preached the Gospel was in his sins...

This is what Jesus was telling them, that if you do not believe in me you will be in your sins...Jesus said that to the Scribes and the Leader and to all the by-standers who at that time were still under the righteousness of the Law...Jesus knowing that the Law and the Atonement under the Law will no longer be accepted by God...and the people will be in the position to have their sins forgiven in the name of Jesus as in the day of Penticost...

In Zaharia we have the High Preist being in his sins...it is not that he had committed sins...it is because the standing of the High Preist after the death of Jesus Christ it is a standing on ones own state of being and without the benefit of the Atonement under the Law...

The reason I said that is because the High Priest under the benefits of the Law was Alive to God in the same way Abraham, Issac and Jacob and all the chosen children of Abraham through the household of Jacob were alive to God and at the time of their death they were gathered to their Father Abraham and under that jurisdiction Satan had nothing to do with the children of Abraham who were the children of God..

Satan could not touch the children of God at the time of their death, because they were gathered to Abraham where Hades the God of the dead was off limits to where Abraham was together with his children, his chosen offsprings who were   gathered to him and were waiting for the Messiah to come to them...and take them to Heaven to be with the Heavenly Father...

To see the High Priest in filthy garments this must be a time after the Cross...and the Priest was still alive and to be in that state indicates that he had heard the Gospel and he had not believe YET...at that state the H.P. stands condemned and the Devil was standing by, because as the H.P. was in his sins in the denial of faith in Jesus, Satan had the right to take him at the time of his death, so he was standing by waiting for him to die...only he had not die yet, the H.P. was still alive and it must be the time that he believed in Jesus Christ and for that reason he in Given the Garment of the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ...

He cannot represent Jesus Christ because Jesus was all the time righteous before God, and the Devil knew it that's why he tried to make him disobeyed God and fall like Adam fall...so the High Preist not only he cannot represent Jesus but also he cannot represent anyone who has not heard the Gospel...

He can represent anyone who has heard the Gospel and is in denial even the Israelites who were in denial after they heard the Gospel they also were in their sins, in filthy rags, by DEFAULT...who are still living and had not died yet and be Judged yet, because they are still are being called to believe in Jesus...who at the time when they believe they put on the garments of Jesus Christ righteousness because they have their sins forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ...

In this state having the forgiveness of sins in Jesus are also standing in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ...and the devil cannot touch them...the High Priest represents someone who did not believe in Jesus Christ and he believes at some time before his death...

If the High Priest is in his sins without the faith in Jesus Christ then all the nation of Israel is in their sins....and if the High Priest is in that standing because he has not believe yet...then the Atonement he will do after the Cross of Jesus Christ are not accepted by God because God accepts only the Atonement of Jesus Christ and those who are in the faith of Jesus, because faith in Jesus has come in the world and then then the people who assume that they had the benefit of the Atonement and they believed that they were under the Atonement of the Law, as  when they were before the death of Jesus Christ but they are not now because Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of the sins everyone in the world.  

Edited September 6, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[JohnR7]

20 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Is this scripture true, and what does it say?

In Revelation 7:14 we read: "They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." We put off the old and put on the new. We become a new creation in Christ. 

[Ray12614]

14 hours ago, Jayne said:

ral. 

?

 

Have you READ the book of Zechariah?  Apparently not. Please read the book before claiming that these these are literal

I re-read the book just now, and tend to agree with you regarding they are not literal, but, meant to convey deeper truths. HOWEVER, in all fairness to those who disagree with us, the first vision are described literally as an vision. The following visions do not explicitly say that, BUT are continuation of visions being given. BUT even so, clearly God is dealing with the prophet about future events and revealing them in visions. This (in my opinion) is consistent in the new testament and one example is Jesus giving Saul a vision of a man named Ananias coming to him and laying hands on him so he can receive his eye sight again. It was a future event, fulfilled literally in a short period of time, not at the time of the vision.

I just don't know why people don't believe me sometimes.  Is it because I am female or old or what?

It could be your southern accent (Y'all . . . ), or, maybe your sleeping cat . . . . ????  Just Kidding . . . . 

 

[Mike Mclees]

9 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Have you READ the book of Zechariah?  Apparently not. Please read the book before claiming that these these are literal

I re-read the book just now, and tend to agree with you regarding they are not literal, but, meant to convey deeper truths. HOWEVER, in all fairness to those who disagree with us, the first vision are described literally as an vision. The following visions do not explicitly say that, BUT are continuation of visions being given. BUT even so, clearly God is dealing with the prophet about future events and revealing them in visions. This (in my opinion) is consistent in the new testament and one example is Jesus giving Saul a vision of a man named Ananias coming to him and laying hands on him so he can receive his eye sight again. It was a future event, fulfilled literally in a short period of time, not at the time of the vision.

I just don't know why people don't believe me sometimes.  Is it because I am female or old or what?

It could be your southern accent (Y'all . . . ), or, maybe your sleeping cat . . . . ????  Just Kidding . . . . 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Have you READ the book of Zechariah?  Apparently not. Please read the book before claiming that these these are literal

I re-read the book just now, and tend to agree with you regarding they are not literal, but, meant to convey deeper truths. HOWEVER, in all fairness to those who disagree with us, the first vision are described literally as an vision. The following visions do not explicitly say that, BUT are continuation of visions being given. BUT even so, clearly God is dealing with the prophet about future events and revealing them in visions. This (in my opinion) is consistent in the new testament and one example is Jesus giving Saul a vision of a man named Ananias coming to him and laying hands on him so he can receive his eye sight again. It was a future event, fulfilled literally in a short period of time, not at the time of the vision.

I just don't know why people don't believe me sometimes.  Is it because I am female or old or what?

It could be your southern accent (Y'all . . . ), or, maybe your sleeping cat . . . . ????  Just Kidding . . . . 

 

.  It isn't personal. It just goes with the territory. These differences in chat boards are every day. You are a teacher and i am not. I have not read all the visions in Zechariah. I only needed the vision of Joshua to stress my point.

[JohnR7]

Jeremiah 1:12 God watches over His word to perform His word.