Witnessing to Jewish people

[Jedi4Yahweh]

58 minutes ago, NCAP said:

Let's talk about the Ebionites, too.

4. These men, moreover, thought that it was necessary to reject all the epistles of the apostle, whom they called an apostate from the law; [830] and they used only the so-called Gospel according to the Hebrews [831] and made small account of the rest.
(Book III (3), Chapter XXVII (27), Church History by Eusebius Pamphilius)

The Ebonite's where one of the first Christian groups in Israel.  They believed in Jesus and keeping the Law of God.  They rejected the teachings of Paul because he spoke against the Law of God.  Many believe that James was the primary leader of this Christian group.

[NCAP]

2 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

The Ebonite's where one of the first Christian groups in Israel.  They believed in Jesus and keeping the Law of God.  They rejected the teachings of Paul because he spoke against the Law of God.  Many believe that James was the primary leader of this Christian group.

Yes, and I've read elsewhere that the letters of James, John, and Jude were a counter-offense attack on the teachings of Paul.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Just now, NCAP said:

Yes, and I've read elsewhere that the letters of James, John, and Jude were a counter-offense attack on the teachings of Paul.

Yes, I heard this as well.  Its kind strange because its says all the Churches of Asia rejected Paul. Yet we read later in Revelations how God is commending the Church's of Asia and how the exposed false apostles. 

This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me [Paul]; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. - 2Ti 1:15 KJV

John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; - Rev 1:4 KJV

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: - Rev 2:2 KJV

Why didn't God scold them on rejecting Paul????

[JohnD]

37 minutes ago, NCAP said:

They may not come to Jesus because it is forbidden for Jews to speak to the dead.

But, he's alive again.

[Starise]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

If you want a more contemporary answer, the reason is because of the entire history Christianity being anti-Jewish. In fact badly so. I would even say that Christianity has done more harm to Jews and Judaism over it’s history, than Rome ever could have done to Jews.

I have never felt especially led to any group as a ministry calling, including Jews. Yet I understand many are led to certain groups for ministry.

Having said that I realize  if the Lord puts a Jewish person in my path, it is wise to know where they are coming in their belief and culture. It isn't just that though. It's also about the person and where they are.

No matter who it is, if they don't desire to look outside of their scope and consider other possibilities, then nothing we say or do will change this.

From what I can tell about them so far, it seems rare to find one even willing to discuss anything but their own take on things. There are solid explanations around a lot of what they claim but most of them simply don't want to hear it.

My last experience came quite unexpectedly as I was conversing with  part time composer in NY who happened to also be a very religious Jew. We ended up going back and forth in texts. His texts were like books as if he thought that by overloading my ability to respond he could shut me down. He did admit he was in a closed system and they helped each other out. Much like the Amish and other similar groups, they are shunned if they walk away to another belief. He had financial interests in staying in his 'system'. 

Since 22 of my 24 hours a day are pretty much committed during the week I simply didn't have the time for a 3 hour a day texting buddy. I do like the guy and I think he is very gifted. I'm not sure he is in his belief for the benefits or if he really believes all of it. At the core he could be bordering on disillusion but he still listens to and takes anything those rabbis he respects seriously and I guess he is considered to be a 'good jewish person' by those in his religion.

Everything about anything he said was designed to show me that he thinks us Christians are dullards and his people know far more about all of it than we do.

That was my last and I guess only experience with someone like that, and I didn't go looking for a confrontation with him. He came to me. We supported one another's work online, but I sort of lost touch with him. He was dating the NY Jewish girls, actors and such but they all seemed to be after $$. He was doing ok in NY with an internet business. His opinion of women seemed to me to be pretty low as he was looking for someone to have kids. Relationships didn't seem to be as important as that to him. Family is important to them, or having a family.

We can't judge them all by only one or two because they are all different, but I tend to form my opinions based on my experiences.

I see them as being in a very tightly controlled bubble. They are forbidden to even look at anything Christian. It all stopped with the Torah for them.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

5 minutes ago, Starise said:

I see them as being in a very tightly controlled bubble. They are forbidden to even look at anything Christian. It all stopped with the Torah for them.

Brother has nothing to do with Torah, it has everything to do with Talmud and Mishnah (Rabbinic Traditions & Rules of Men).  The bibles says the Torah points us to the Messiah. 

..Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? ... [Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. - Mat 15:3, 7-9 KJV

..For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? - Jhn 5:45-47 KJV

 

[Starise]

59 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Brother has nothing to do with Torah, it has everything to do with Talmud and Mishnah (Rabbinic Traditions & Rules of Men).  The bibles says the Torah points us to the Messiah. 

So I guess my post still shows some of my ignorance of everything they hold to believe. I should have probably said " everything ends with the Old Testament so far as anything superseding it. That's what I have always been told. They don't believe any of the new testament.

The "rules of men" in rabbinic tradition yes they are big on that, but if they had the core right I think the other stuff would fall in line.

And of course everything you are quoting is from texts none of them believe to be true or most of them at least. And that's the problem really. You are preaching to the choir here. How does quoting the NT scriptures hold up when approaching one of them ?

They willingly ignore the life preserver so they will either grab it eventually or die.

[NCAP]

28 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

Uh, that's total bull. If you are Jewish and become an atheist, agnostic or anything outside Orthodox Judaism then you are an apostate. Under Jewish law, once you are Jewish you're never not Jewish. So hypothetically if you converted to Judaism and then went on to become a Christian you're still considered Jewish, but an apostate. And if you are born Jewish then you are always a Jew, again you are considered an apostate if you leave. It would help to actually consult a Jewish person about how Jewish law works instead of making baseless claims.

Each religion, it seems, defines who is and who is not an apostate.

Example...

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him." (CCC)

[Jedi4Yahweh]

26 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

Uh, that's total bull. If you are Jewish and become an atheist, agnostic or anything outside Orthodox Judaism then you are an apostate. Under Jewish law, once you are Jewish you're never not Jewish. So hypothetically if you converted to Judaism and then went on to become a Christian you're still considered Jewish, but an apostate. And if you are born Jewish then you are always a Jew, again you are considered an apostate if you leave. It would help to actually consult a Jewish person about how Jewish law works instead of making baseless claims.

Wow I never typed Jewish so many times on one paragraph.

Yes and No

First my mothers family were Ashkenazi Jews and when my grandfather converted to Christianity he was rejected by Jewish family members as no longer being Jewish, but yes maybe an apostate Jew.  But what does an Apostate Jew mean?  It means you are no longer accepted by Judaism.  In essence, no longer a true Jew aka Apostate Jew.  

Rabbi Kassel Abelson for the Rabbinical Assembly Committee on Jewish Law and Standards in 2012, Jewish Law makes a distinction between non-Jews who are Christians and born Jews who accept Christianity. Having left Judaism, the latter are Christians who are also apostate Jews. As such Jewish Law cannot grant them the privileges of Jews such as synagogue membership, aliyot to the Torah and Jewish burial. However if they return to Judaism they will be welcomed back.

Polish Jew Oswald Rufeisen, who had converted to Catholicism, sought to immigrate to Israel. The Israeli Supreme Court denied his application, arguing that "no one can regard an apostate as belonging to the Jewish people". Refeisen himself insisted on that he was still a Jew.

"Atheism and Judaism are not contradictory, so to have an atheist in a Jewish congregation isn't an issue or a challenge or a problem," Shrogin said. "It is par for the course. That is what Judaism is. It is our tradition to question God from top to bottom." https://www.huffpost.com/entry/atheist-jews-judaism-without-god_n_978418

[JohnD]

5 hours ago, Slibhin said:

A baiting thread, but I'll bite.

If you were born to a Jewish mother then you are Jewish by birth. Most "Messianic" Jews were never Jewish by birth or belief and simply converted to "Messianic" Judaism. If you believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, then you are not Jewish you are a Christian.

Slibhin, you are repeating yourself. And making my case in the answer I gave to the chap on Quora Digest. ref the highlighted boldface.

And you wonder why I repeat myself...