What Is A Genuine Christian?

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Adhoc

I must say I think your message was beautiful,well said and I normally I scroll past the long ones- you kept my attention

Excellent ,thank you for your analogies,well done!

With love in Christ, Kwik

What gracious words. Thank you.

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Of course, nearly everybody knows what you're getting at in your posting. But there is a large contingent of Christians who argue away points of doctrine using the term "Genuine Christian". If the argument is accepted there is no end to the mischief that can be agreed to. Let's take an example. In Matthew 7:21-23 a company of men request entrance to the Kingdom. The causal reader cannot but be impressed with their works.

1. They knew who the lord was
2. They called upon His Name
3. They did works in His Name
4. They did miracles in His Name
5. They did works that only Christians can do
6. They did works that positively showed that they had the Spirit of God
7. They were at an assize that is reserved only for Christians
8. That means that they had had a special date for resurrection

Yet they were refused, rebuked and cast out of the Kingdom of heaven. The reason is somewhat obscure at first reading but ultimately the reason put forward is that they were NOT GENUINE Christians. But this excuse is devastatingly damaging to the whole flavor of the Christian walk. It removes the incentive from the diligent Christian and it defuses the real warning behind it. It's result is that the Christian can be as slothful as they like and still believe that they are in no danger. And the danger is very real, for ignorance of the Law is no excuse. Behind ignorance is still the threat of pain. Luke 12:47–48a reads;

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

In the case at hand, the 8 proofs build a watertight case that these were Christians. But those not understanding the qualifications need to enter the kingdom of heaven, will say that they were not GENUINE Christians. Let me pose a question. Recently, the British Queen died. He son, Charles ascended the throne. How, and why, did he effortlessly ascend. He did so because (i) he was the GENUINE Heir, and (ii) he was not in jail or exile. But now I must ask, if he was accused of a crime, would that make him any less than a GENUINE HEIR? An Heir s not named based on your works. The sovereign of the country appoints you, and/or you are born to it.Were Anannais and Saphira GENUINE Christians? 

The answer is that it is NOT your WORKS that make you a genuine Christian or NOT. You become a Christian by approaching an UNSEEN Christ with FAITH. You become a GENUINE Christian by the finished work of Christ. King Charles retains His position by BIRTH - NOT works. Did Israel escape the angel of death because they were without trespass? No! They worshiped idols as much as the Egyptians. Did this worship of idols make them any less GENUINE Israelites? And after they carried their idols and the Tabernacle of Remphan for 40 years in the wilderness, were they any less GENUINE Israelites? No! Because being a GENUINE Israelite was decided by your BIRTH - not whether an idol was under your tent floor.

It is therefore vitally important to the sharpness of the warning that the Christian is named for his BIRTH by the Holy Spirit and not his works. Then the warnings about his WORKS will have effect. A Christian is a Christian because he believed in Christ. And the Christian who believed is ALWAYS GENUINE - even when he is involving himself in the most heinous of crimes. Those Christians of MattHew 7:21-23 are genuine because they did works that only a Christian can. What they did wrong was do it without orders!! the Lord and Master of those men asked them - did you DO what I told you to do? The answer was; "Look how great the works are!" The Master will say, "you workers of INIQUITY" - NOT because their works were evil, BUT BECAUSE THEY DID THEM WITHOUT ORDERS. BEWARE ALL CHRISTIANS! If you are a GENUINE Christian you will be at the judgment seat of Christ which decides who will be co-kings in the next age. And many GENUINE Christians will not enter the Kingdom because they did works not ordered by God.

Has God given you the power to cast out a demon? Yes? When should you cast out any demon? After an hour, a day or a week? The answer is "when My father i heaven orders it". The young 23-year-old U.S. drone pilot sits at her console in Texas. She has a top Afghan terrorist in a pickup on a dusty road locked in her sights. The missiles on her drone are armed. She has been briefed that this terrorist has killed many people including children. He is to be taken out. Ahead she sees an Afghan village with a wedding in progress. If she fires in two minutes from now there will be collateral damage. When should she fire the missile?

You all know the answer. She will fire when the General gives the order. Possessing the power to cast out a demon does not entitle you to cast one out. If God gives you the gift of faith to raise the dead, shall you cram as many resurrections into your life as you can? Or will you ask God? Those men of Matthew 7 were GENUINE Christians - and they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Good evening AdHoc, we have not chatted lately. As always, I want to compare our hermeneutics and learn a little more. I frequently state my views are not necessarily the correct view on topics such as below. I think it is foolish to form a personal unwavering opinion without knowing and studying all sides of exegesis. Thus, here I am.

Those men of Matthew 7 were GENUINE Christians - and they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I think we discussed this and “outer darkness” not long ago, but would you refresh my memory? By the Kingdom of Heaven, I am assuming you are relating that to the 1,000-year reign of Christ. Whether this is your example or entering eternity, where will these GENUINE Christians reside, and for how long?

I am under the conviction (and open to other views) that we either have saving faith or not, with no middle ground. We either go and be with the Lord forever or are cast into Hell to await the Great White Throne judgment. Purgatory is a town in a western movie.

I further interpret scripture that everyone with saving faith in Jesus and His work on the Cross will rule and reign with Him in the Kingdom. As with the 10, 5, and one talent, our rewards and assignments will be commeasurable with our faith, obedience, and the fruits we produced for the Kingdom of God while we were in the flesh.

I know the parable of the five wise and five foolish bridesmaids. Whether the consequences are the same or not, I don’t know. The Lord’s terminology is twofold; here, He says to the foolish five, I do not know you. Elsewhere in scripture, He says, “I never knew you.” In the former, all ten were invited and waiting, both groups slumbered and slept, and Jesus did not rebuke that. The five foolish were unprepared, not yet ready, and did not plan for an extended stay. As we are both aware, there are numerous interpretations of the meaning.

I know you are familiar with the Jewish wedding customs during the 2^nd Temple period and how that custom mirrors what is said about the harpazo perfectly. In effect, the way I understand your thoughts, to use a modern term, there will be spousal abuse of the bride. Do I understand your thoughts on that correctly?

Were Anannais and Saphira GENUINE Christians?

I have wondered about that myself. Based on my reading I would answer in the affirmative. I suspect the following verse might be appliable to them lying to the Holy Spirit:

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

I take the above to infer physical death and not spiritual death. Something akin to cutting your life short as a punishment. Killing the body to save the soul in some instances. Before someone with saving faith goes too far, and the Lord calls them home prematurely. Just my thoughts anyway.

[AdHoc]

6 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Good evening AdHoc, we have not chatted lately. As always, I want to compare our hermeneutics and learn a little more. I frequently state my views are not necessarily the correct view on topics such as below. I think it is foolish to form a personal unwavering opinion without knowing and studying all sides of exegesis. Thus, here I am.

Those men of Matthew 7 were GENUINE Christians - and they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I think we discussed this and “outer darkness” not long ago, but would you refresh my memory? By the Kingdom of Heaven, I am assuming you are relating that to the 1,000-year reign of Christ. Whether this is your example or entering eternity, where will these GENUINE Christians reside, and for how long?

I am under the conviction (and open to other views) that we either have saving faith or not, with no middle ground. We either go and be with the Lord forever or are cast into Hell to await the Great White Throne judgment. Purgatory is a town in a western movie.

I further interpret scripture that everyone with saving faith in Jesus and His work on the Cross will rule and reign with Him in the Kingdom. As with the 10, 5, and one talent, our rewards and assignments will be commeasurable with our faith, obedience, and the fruits we produced for the Kingdom of God while we were in the flesh.

I know the parable of the five wise and five foolish bridesmaids. Whether the consequences are the same or not, I don’t know. The Lord’s terminology is twofold; here, He says to the foolish five, I do not know you. Elsewhere in scripture, He says, “I never knew you.” In the former, all ten were invited and waiting, both groups slumbered and slept, and Jesus did not rebuke that. The five foolish were unprepared, not yet ready, and did not plan for an extended stay. As we are both aware, there are numerous interpretations of the meaning.

I know you are familiar with the Jewish wedding customs during the 2^nd Temple period and how that custom mirrors what is said about the harpazo perfectly. In effect, the way I understand your thoughts, to use a modern term, there will be spousal abuse of the bride. Do I understand your thoughts on that correctly?

Were Anannais and Saphira GENUINE Christians?

I have wondered about that myself. Based on my reading I would answer in the affirmative. I suspect the following verse might be appliable to them lying to the Holy Spirit:

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

I take the above to infer physical death and not spiritual death. Something akin to cutting your life short as a punishment. Killing the body to save the soul in some instances. Before someone with saving faith goes too far, and the Lord calls them home prematurely. Just my thoughts anyway.

Just a recap on a previous posting.
The Kingdom of Heaven is Christ bringing God's heavenly rule to earth. This Kingdom will be everlasting. The first 1,000 years, which is on the "old" earth, is set aside by God as a reward for the diligent Christian.

Purgatory is a myth - as I said in my posting. But what is chastisement? It is God's dealing to produce righteousness. If there is no "middle ground" what happens to the wayward Christian? Purgatory is a myth, but what of the Gizrah (Ezekiel 41 and 42)?

I doubt if the man with one Talent had a good ending. Likewise the servant who did not multiply his pounds. So also the five foolish Virgins and the incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians Chapter 5. I agree with you. Ananias and Saphira were genuine Christians. Look at the grammar of Acts 4:32. It records what "believers" did. Acts 5:1 starts with a "but" including Ananias an Saphira among the "believers". If they sinned against the Holy Spirit (5:9), will it be forgiven them in the next age?

Moses may not ENTER the Kingdom of Israel. Does this strip him of his birth to Levi? Likewise a Christian. If he only sees the Kingdom but may not partake of it, is Christ's work annulled? Is the Holy Spirit robbed of His work in your rebirth (Jn.3:6)? Is there something that can separate you from God (Romans 8 end)

Take the time to do a study of the word "knew" in both cases of Jesus judging Christians (Matthew 7 and 25). You will see that is does not mean intellectual knowledge.

Good night friend. It's nearly 2 a.m. here. Go well.

[Walter and Deborah]

9 hours ago, NCAP said:

An adjective is a word that modifies the meaning of a noun. Adjectives are used to paint a better picture of what an author is trying to convey.

Example:

An abolished law is no part of scripture because an object that is absent does not exist.

Thank you.

Walter

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Of course, nearly everybody knows what you're getting at in your posting. But there is a large contingent of Christians who argue away points of doctrine using the term "Genuine Christian". If the argument is accepted there is no end to the mischief that can be agreed to. Let's take an example. In Matthew 7:21-23 a company of men request entrance to the Kingdom. The causal reader cannot but be impressed with their works.

1. They knew who the lord was
2. They called upon His Name
3. They did works in His Name
4. They did miracles in His Name
5. They did works that only Christians can do
6. They did works that positively showed that they had the Spirit of God
7. They were at an assize that is reserved only for Christians
8. That means that they had had a special date for resurrection

Yet they were refused, rebuked and cast out of the Kingdom of heaven. The reason is somewhat obscure at first reading but ultimately the reason put forward is that they were NOT GENUINE Christians. But this excuse is devastatingly damaging to the whole flavor of the Christian walk. It removes the incentive from the diligent Christian and it defuses the real warning behind it. It's result is that the Christian can be as slothful as they like and still believe that they are in no danger. And the danger is very real, for ignorance of the Law is no excuse. Behind ignorance is still the threat of pain. Luke 12:47–48a reads;

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

In the case at hand, the 8 proofs build a watertight case that these were Christians. But those not understanding the qualifications need to enter the kingdom of heaven, will say that they were not GENUINE Christians. Let me pose a question. Recently, the British Queen died. He son, Charles ascended the throne. How, and why, did he effortlessly ascend. He did so because (i) he was the GENUINE Heir, and (ii) he was not in jail or exile. But now I must ask, if he was accused of a crime, would that make him any less than a GENUINE HEIR? An Heir s not named based on your works. The sovereign of the country appoints you, and/or you are born to it.Were Anannais and Saphira GENUINE Christians? 

The answer is that it is NOT your WORKS that make you a genuine Christian or NOT. You become a Christian by approaching an UNSEEN Christ with FAITH. You become a GENUINE Christian by the finished work of Christ. King Charles retains His position by BIRTH - NOT works. Did Israel escape the angel of death because they were without trespass? No! They worshiped idols as much as the Egyptians. Did this worship of idols make them any less GENUINE Israelites? And after they carried their idols and the Tabernacle of Remphan for 40 years in the wilderness, were they any less GENUINE Israelites? No! Because being a GENUINE Israelite was decided by your BIRTH - not whether an idol was under your tent floor.

It is therefore vitally important to the sharpness of the warning that the Christian is named for his BIRTH by the Holy Spirit and not his works. Then the warnings about his WORKS will have effect. A Christian is a Christian because he believed in Christ. And the Christian who believed is ALWAYS GENUINE - even when he is involving himself in the most heinous of crimes. Those Christians of MattHew 7:21-23 are genuine because they did works that only a Christian can. What they did wrong was do it without orders!! the Lord and Master of those men asked them - did you DO what I told you to do? The answer was; "Look how great the works are!" The Master will say, "you workers of INIQUITY" - NOT because their works were evil, BUT BECAUSE THEY DID THEM WITHOUT ORDERS. BEWARE ALL CHRISTIANS! If you are a GENUINE Christian you will be at the judgment seat of Christ which decides who will be co-kings in the next age. And many GENUINE Christians will not enter the Kingdom because they did works not ordered by God.

Has God given you the power to cast out a demon? Yes? When should you cast out any demon? After an hour, a day or a week? The answer is "when My father i heaven orders it". The young 23-year-old U.S. drone pilot sits at her console in Texas. She has a top Afghan terrorist in a pickup on a dusty road locked in her sights. The missiles on her drone are armed. She has been briefed that this terrorist has killed many people including children. He is to be taken out. Ahead she sees an Afghan village with a wedding in progress. If she fires in two minutes from now there will be collateral damage. When should she fire the missile?

You all know the answer. She will fire when the General gives the order. Possessing the power to cast out a demon does not entitle you to cast one out. If God gives you the gift of faith to raise the dead, shall you cram as many resurrections into your life as you can? Or will you ask God? Those men of Matthew 7 were GENUINE Christians - and they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Thank you for your reply.

Walter

[Walter and Deborah]

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

John 10:27-29 

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

If you hear and obey the voice of Jesus, then you are one of His sheep.

Thank you for your reply.

Walter

[Walter and Deborah]

7 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

It's really very simple.  A true Christian is someone that has been born again.

No need to complicate that.

Thank you.

Walter

[Walter and Deborah]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Please let a true Christian ministry answer that for you.

 

What does it mean to be a born again Christian?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

The classic passage from the Bible that answers this question is John 3:1-21. The Lord Jesus Christ is talking to Nicodemus, a prominent Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin (the ruling body of the Jews). Nicodemus had come to Jesus at night with some questions.
 

 

As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “‘I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again”’” (John 3:3-7).

The phrase "born again" literally means "born from above." Nicodemus had a real need. He needed a change of his heart—a spiritual transformation. New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-4, 18). John 1:12, 13 indicates that being "born again" also carries the idea of "becoming children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.

The question logically comes, "Why does a person need to be born again?" The apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:1 says, "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins" (NKJV). To the Romans he wrote, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Sinners are spiritually “dead”; when they receive spiritual life through faith in Christ, the Bible likens it to a rebirth. Only those who are born again have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.

How does that come to be? Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." When one is saved, he/she has been born again, spiritually renewed, and is now a child of God by right of new birth. Trusting in Jesus Christ, the One who paid the penalty of sin when He died on the cross, is the means to be "born again." "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: the old has gone, the new has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

If you have never trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, will you consider the prompting of the Holy Spirit as He speaks to your heart? You need to be born again. Will you pray the prayer of repentance and become a new creation in Christ today? "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God" (John 1:12-13).

If you want to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and be born again, here is a sample prayer. Remember, saying this prayer or any other prayer will not save you. It is only trusting in Christ that can save you from sin. This prayer is simply a way to express to God your faith in Him and thank Him for providing for your salvation. "God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment. But Jesus Christ took the punishment that I deserve so that through faith in Him I could be forgiven. I place my trust in You for salvation. Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness—the gift of eternal life! Amen!"

 

Thanks, Walter

[Walter and Deborah]

2 hours ago, NCAP said:

NCAP:
What is a true born again?

missmuffet:
Please let a true Christian ministry answer that for you.

true Christian ministry:
If you want to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and be born again, here is a sample prayer. Remember, saying this prayer or any other prayer will not save you.

Conclusion:
Remembering something contributes to no one's salvation.

Do better.

Thanks. Walter

[Tristen]

A Christian is someone who has sincerely surrendered ownership of their life to Christ (i.e. confessing Christ as their Lord) as a faith response to His Gospel.

[Dennis1209]

49 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Just a recap on a previous posting.
The Kingdom of Heaven is Christ bringing God's heavenly rule to earth. This Kingdom will be everlasting. The first 1,000 years, which is on the "old" earth, is set aside by God as a reward for the diligent Christian.

Purgatory is a myth - as I said in my posting. But what is chastisement? It is God's dealing to produce righteousness. If there is no "middle ground" what happens to the wayward Christian? Purgatory is a myth, but what of the Gizrah (Ezekiel 41 and 42)?

I doubt if the man with one Talent had a good ending. Likewise the servant who did not multiply his pounds. So also the five foolish Virgins and the incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians Chapter 5. I agree with you. Ananias and Saphira were genuine Christians. Look at the grammar of Acts 4:32. It records what "believers" did. Acts 5:1 starts with a "but" including Ananias an Saphira among the "believers". If they sinned against the Holy Spirit (5:9), will it be forgiven them in the next age?

Moses may not ENTER the Kingdom of Israel. Does this strip him of his birth to Levi? Likewise a Christian. If he only sees the Kingdom but may not partake of it, is Christ's work annulled? Is the Holy Spirit robbed of His work in your rebirth (Jn.3:6)? Is there something that can separate you from God (Romans 8 end)

Take the time to do a study of the word "knew" in both cases of Jesus judging Christians (Matthew 7 and 25). You will see that is does not mean intellectual knowledge.

Good night friend. It's nearly 2 a.m. here. Go well.

When you mentioned the time, I just noticed you live in Europe. Do you realize what you could do with a good metal detector over there?  😊 Having never skied before or since, I came within feet of going off a cliff in the Alps in 1986.

But anyway, that is very interesting and makes sense to me, especially with the example of Moses not being allowed to enter the promised land, only looking upon it. Of all the commentaries I have consulted, I have never run across anything remotely close. It goes against my long-held thoughts, but I do not see any holes to contend.

If there is significance to the number (percentage) of people used in the parables of the virgins, talents, and seeds, the numbers suggest it will be substantial.

So, to clarify your thoughts, you suggest for example the five foolish virgins will not be participants in the millennium, only observers?

As you suggest I will do a word study on the word “knew and know.” I would not have thought I needed a word study for differences, I presumed I knew that one. LOL