What Is A Genuine Christian?

[Dennis1209]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Take the time to do a study of the word "knew" in both cases of Jesus judging Christians (Matthew 7 and 25). You will see that is does not mean intellectual knowledge.

I did not think it meant intellectual knowledge, but what I thought was not correct in comparison either. Those two little words helped me understand your thoughts better. Comparing Matthew 25:12 and the word know; in I know you not, and Matthew 7:23, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity, are quite different in context. Who would have thunk, LOL? 

In Matt. 25:12 the topic is readiness | stewardship: be intimately acquainted with or stand in a close relation to, know οὐκ οἶδα τὸν ἄνθρωπον I don’t know the man Mt 26:72, 74; cp. Mk 14:71; Lk 22:57.

            •          —J 7:28b; 8:19 al.—οὐκ οἶδα ὑμᾶς I have nothing to do with you Mt 25:12. ^[1]

^{In Matt 7:23} ⑦       to indicate that one does know, acknowledge, recognize as that which one is or claims to be τινά (Plut., Ages. 597 [3, 1]; Jos., Ant. 5, 112) οὐδέποτε ἔγνων ὑμᾶς I have never recognized you Mt 7:23; cp. J 1:10. ^[2]

^{The former is the lack of a close intimate personal relationship with Jesus. As you suggest, the latter seems to be recognition, unauthorized noncommissioned "works" for their own fame, reputation, and glory. They were doing things in Jesus's name only, not ever knowing Him. Doing something not granted and authorized by the Lord is iniquity, sin. So, the former is relational, and the latter self-justification.} 
But it seems my aforementioned thoughts have a problem: Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40. For he that is not against us is on our part.

 

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^[1] Arndt, William et al. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature 2000: 200. Print.

 

 

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^[2] Arndt, William et al. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature 2000: 693. Print.

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

When you mentioned the time, I just noticed you live in Europe. Do you realize what you could do with a good metal detector over there?  😊 Having never skied before or since, I came within feet of going off a cliff in the Alps in 1986.

But anyway, that is very interesting and makes sense to me, especially with the example of Moses not being allowed to enter the promised land, only looking upon it. Of all the commentaries I have consulted, I have never run across anything remotely close. It goes against my long-held thoughts, but I do not see any holes to contend.

If there is significance to the number (percentage) of people used in the parables of the virgins, talents, and seeds, the numbers suggest it will be substantial.

So, to clarify your thoughts, you suggest for example the five foolish virgins will not be participants in the millennium, only observers?

As you suggest I will do a word study on the word “knew and know.” I would not have thought I needed a word study for differences, I presumed I knew that one. LOL

The Lord kept you from the cliff for this conversation.

Israel are saved by the Lamb. That is where contemporary Christianity stop. But the Lamb was a necessary step to God's plan to get His People to occupy and rule Canaan. 600,000 men of fighting age did not make it. Two did - Joshua and Caleb. The other 600,000 men fell in the wilderness. Were they still sons of Jacob and seed of Abraham? YES! Some 900+ years later, Judah and Benjamin were deported from the Land and joined the other tribes in a world-wide dispersion. They have been their since. Are they seed of Abraham and Heirs to the promises? By all means yes. They cannot be unbirthed. But they can be dealt with by God until Deuteronomy 30:1-5 is accomplished

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

Nobody would say anything about purgatory here. But when the bulk of Christianity apostatize themselves and are driven away from Christ and His pleasures during the Millennium, the Christians say "that's the doctrine of purgatory". They are like the five foolish Virgins. They readily believe that salvation is for free, but cannot fathom that gaining the kingdom is connected with EFFORT.

A parable has a limited lesson. We should not address things that are not there. But equally we should consider ALL that IS there. The Ten Virgins are the same in seven points. But first ... why ten? Are not God's people counted by TWELVE. Yes! The ten Virgins "slept". They speak for all the Christians who have lived and died. The other two are the living at the time of Christ's coming. They are found in Matthew 24:40-44 ... 10+2=12.

The Virgins are all called Virgins even after five were shut out of  the wedding feast. Only Christians are called Virgins in the New Testament (2nd Cor.11:2). They all have their lamps burning. Proverbs 20:27 says that the spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord. They all had oil in their Lamps. The issue of extra oil was in their "Vessels". They all longed for the Groom. They all went forth to meet the Groom. They all slept. They were all resurrected together. They all were renewed in their desire for the Groom. Although the oil was short for some, all lamps were still burning. The single difference between the five wise and the five foolish was that the foolish thought that the EXTRA oil in their VESSELS was for free. Thus, if the five wise Virgins are Christians, so are the five foolish. They are the same in every respect except one - and that was not a moral difference. And what truly must seal it is that the resurrection was common. Only Christians will be present at the resurrection when the Lord comes. Israel are resurrected AFTER the Great Tribulation and the Nations are only resurrected after the Millennium.

The object of the parable is "the kingdom of heaven". Here, the lesson is not who is a Christian. The lesson is; who gets into the coming Kingdom. The rapture is alluded to. The call is; "The Groom is Coming!" The command is; "go ye out and MEET Him". Compare with 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17. We are the Light of the world. The Kingdom has come. We must shine brightly. Oil was used for two main reasons in scripture. The Lampstand in the Holy Place must not cease burning. It must be supplied by oil continuously. Oil is used for anointing. And in examples of this anointing, the anointed went forth in the power of the Holy Spirit (1st Sam.16:13). The issue of the Virgins is not primarily good works. It is a wedding feast. The issue is the supply of the Holy Spirit for joy, service and testimony. The guests demeanor must fit the occasion. And the occasion is the presenting of the Son of God for His Bride. The Kingdom is to be a matter of "righteousness, peace and joy - in the Holy Spirit" (Rom.14:17).

The foolish Virgins are called that because they didn't know that the extra oil had to be BOUGHT. A price had to be paid. The oil in the Lamp was for free for it is the Lord's Lamp (Prov.20:27). But the Lord expects the Virgins to prepare themselves. How does one pay for the Holy Spirit? By denying oneself and making place for the Fruits of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit dwells in the spirit of every Christian. But this Spirit must be able to display His nature. What hinders this Spirit? The flesh (Gal.5:17). The process of gaining oil in the Vessel is to set aside the flesh - a most painful thing. The Christian is tied to the flesh and has pandered to it all his life. Now suddenly the Spirit asks for space to grow and bear fruit. The flesh screams in protest and the winner will always be the flesh ... UNLESS .... it is nailed to a cross. This is not asceticism. This not castigation like Rome promotes. This is the silent but vicious battle where the Virgin denies the flesh and its demands - DAILY (Lk.9:23). Those that "SELL" the oil are those who crucify the flesh. The Virgins who thought that all was for free are refused entry to the wedding feast and commanded to return to daily life to pay the price of Oil. 

Now, in reality, where will all this take place? The Virgins "go out to meet the Groom". They are raptured. But this joyous occasion turns to tears when they are found without extra oil at the Bema - the Judgment Seat in the air. A hardly is this assize completed than the Groom, now ready to take His rightful possession, leaves the air and descends to EARTH (Rev.20). And it is also on EARTH that the sellers of oil are. the wise Virgins bought oil BEFORE falling asleep. They BOUGHT ON EARTH. So the Groom, with the approved guests enter the feasting area and begin to feast ON EARTH. And the wedding feast is "Like" the Kingdom. If so, then it must last 1,000 years. The joyous occasion is fitting for the Son of God. It is the good wine for 1,000 years. Anon, the foolish Virgins arrive at the door of the feast. They have paid the price and now possess the necessary oil. But another area of their folly is about to be shown. the Groom does not "KNOW" them.

The meaning of this is in the Greek. There are, in the Bible, several words we can render "know". The word here is "oida". It means; "to know by perception" or "intuitive knowledge". It has the sense of full knowledge as opposed to gaining knowledge. Pilate authorized the watch over Jesus' tomb so that the Jewish leadership would "be sure in knowledge" that no one tampered with it. In the case of the Virgins the word means that while Jesus would have intellectual knowledge of the Virgins He would be "unsure" of them. Why? Because they had not spent time with Him to be "sure" of them. You see, a person who really wants to know another person must walk their road. Have you walked the same road as Jesus? Do you know rejection, hate, jealousy, and indifference. Do you know what it is like to have someone, or a group, plan your murder? Do you know what it is like to have no home - to watch the bird fly into its nest and know that you have none? Jesus knew who the Virgins were, but they had not spent time together.

The Lord Jesus has TWO great Joys set before Him at His return. One is the setting in order the government of this earth in favor of the Father. The other is His Wedding Feast. Just as Adam was so pleased to see a "help meet" in Eve, so the Lord is desirous of the Bride. In both parables of the Wedding Feast (Matt.22 & 25) the Wedding Feast is connected to the Kingdom. That is, the same conditions that apply to the Kingdom of Heaven apply to the Wedding Feast. Therefore;

1. The Wedding Feast is after Christ meets the Bride and the Guests on His return
2. The Wedding Feast is not salvation. You have to already be a Vitgin
3. The Wedding Feast is on earth just like the Kingdom
4. The Wedding Feast is a Reward
5. The Wedding Feast lasts 1,000 years
6. The Wedding Feast is for Christians who have the correct garment and who have extra oil in their Vessels
7. The Wedding Feast is a joyous event. To be refused will be a tremendous suffering
8. The oil must be bought now - in this age
9. Buying oil later will not get you into the Wedding Feast
10. In all eternity future, the foolish Virgins will never get this chance again

The PRICE is the same - now, or in the next age. But at stake is the Wedding Feast. Pay now and enjoy, or, pay later and suffer.

[Dirt Eaters]

On 9/26/2022 at 9:51 AM, Walter and Deborah said:

A true Christian is one who predicates his or her whole life on the word of God. 

Exactly how i feel., thank you 😊

[NCAP]

Proposition:

A Jew is a true Christian since that one predicates an entire life on the Torah (instructions), which are the very word of God.

Edited September 28, 2022 by NCAP