Narnia

[Keith]

And now back to our originally posted program, already in progress!

Here is a clip from an article that discusses CS Lewis' intentions when he wrote the Narnia series. I hope this will clear up a few things for some.

Although Lewis makes it clear that The Chronicles of Narnia isn't an allegory, he doesn't deny that some symbolism was written into the series. But, to understand his approach, you need to recognize that Lewis differentiates allegory from something he calls supposal. In a December 1959 letter to a young girl named Sophia Storr, he explains the difference:

I don't say. 'Let us represent Christ as Aslan.' I say, 'Supposing there was a world like Narnia, and supposing, like ours, it needed redemption, let us imagine what sort of Incarnation and Passion and Resurrection Christ would have there.'

Allegory and supposal aren't identical devices, according to Lewis, because they deal with what's real and what's unreal quite differently. In an allegory, the ideas, concepts, and even people being expressed are true, but the characters are make-believe. They always behave in a way reflective of the underlying concepts they're representing. A supposal is much different; the fictional character becomes "real" within the imaginary world, taking on a life of its own and adapting to the make-believe world as necessary. If, for example, you accept the supposal of Aslan as true, then Lewis says, "He would really have been a physical object in that world as He was in Palestine, and His death on the Stone Table would have been a physical event no less than his death on Calvary."

Aslan isn't an allegory of Jesus Christ. Instead, he's a supposal. Lewis emphasizes this point in a December 1958 letter to a lady named Mrs. Hook:

[Aslan] is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question 'What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?' This is not allegory at all.

Much of The Chronicles of Narnia is built on the concept of supposal. For example:

Suppose Christ came into the world of Narnia as Aslan. What would he be like?

Suppose Aslan created Narnia out of nothing and centuries later brought it to a conclusion. How would these stories play out?

Suppose evil were introduced into Narnia. What would that be like?

Suppose a person or talking animal could freely choose to obey or disobey Aslan. What would life in Narnia be like?

By using supposal, Lewis doesn't feel compelled to have a direct 1 to-1 correlation between the experiences of Aslan and the real life of Jesus Christ. In his letter to Sophia Storr, Lewis talks of this freedom: "When I started The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, I don't think I foresaw what Aslan was going to do and suffer. I think He just insisted on behaving in His own way."

Using supposal as the vehicle for getting him there, Lewis views The Chronicles of Narnia as myth. He explains that an allegory is a story with a single meaning, but a myth is a story that can have many meanings for different readers in different generations. According to Lewis, an author puts into an allegory "only what he already knows," but in a myth, he puts "what he does not yet know and could not come by in any other way." Link

[apothanein kerdos]

Narnia, LOTR, WOT, etc, etc, etc, are all of the devil, including video games.

I know everyone thinks Tolkien and Lewis were all the rage because they were "Christians", but the fact remains there isn't any christian message in LotR, The Hobbit, or Chronicles of Narnia, etc. It JUST-ISN'T-THERE. LOTR was one of my favorite books for years, and I would maintain back then that it was a "Christian" book, but it isn't. I was decieved, adn continued decieving myself and others until one day God got it through to me. NOw i still struggle with this mess, but I assure you there is nothing edifying to a christian in these fantasy books, games, and movies.

That is a rediculous thing to say. They are not of the devil, you don't need to worship them as false idols or anything. What's wrong with enjoying a good story? You read the bible right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sure i do. Lets take another look at what the Bible says.

1 Timothy 1:4 - Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

1 Timothy 4:7 - But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

2 Timothy 4:4 - And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Titus 1:14 - Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Acts 19:19 - Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Can you find one scripture where Jesus or a prophet, or an apostle told a parable or story that used a fantastic fable or pagan religion as a teaching source?

The short answer is "No".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I already proved that Paul did:

Let's see how this works:

One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." Titus 1:12

Now, this is from Paul. Paul is quoting a Cretan poet/philosophy/prophet Epimenides...and he's quoting what Epimenides said as truth. In fact, Paul was so in love with Epimenides writings that he appealed to them again in Acts 17:28. The thing is, Epimenides was steeped in mythology, much like Narni, Lord of the Rings, and other writings are. Yet even in all this mythology the truth of God could be found. Paul saw this and appealed to it.

If it is okay for Paul to do with someone who was obviously Pagan, why can we not appeal to writings that are written by Christian thinkers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*COUGHCOUGH*

[nebula]

Giaor -

Keith - good word

WSB -

His fictional character chose how he would be written out? This is madness.

Authors often work that way. Many claim their work to be an exploration.

Never mind, though.

Enjoy our witch-hunt.

[Giaour]

I give up.

Hijack all you want to.

[Keith]

WhySoBlind,

It really is as simple as this: If you don't want to read the books, don't. It's clear you haven't read them and yet you argue against them. Where is your credibility to stand on then? You are trying to argue with a dead man. How is that profitable? If people find allegory, supposals or parallels with the Bible, then the Word is being preached.

I guess I don't understand why you are so adamantly, and vehemently, trying to argue so much against CS Lewis and his work.

[Keith]

Super Jew. I already addressed that in another post somewhere. I'm not looking for it though. Nobody cares anyway, even when one of the quotes someone just posted shows that even C.S. Lewis had no intention of portrayng actual truth in his book. So why bother looking for parrallels/hiddne meaning  if the very author says he didn't intend there to be any?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that is reading between the lines of Lewis' statements.

[apothanein kerdos]

Super Jew. I already addressed that in another post somewhere. I'm not looking for it though. Nobody cares anyway, even when one of the quotes someone just posted shows that even C.S. Lewis had no intention of portrayng actual truth in his book. So why bother looking for parrallels/hiddne meaning  if the very author says he didn't intend there to be any?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, you didn't address it at all. You're simply saying so because you can't address it

Simple fact, even what you consider "pagan" can be used as truth, as Paul so eloquently showed.

The fact is, C.S. Lewis, whether he intended truth to be shown or not, does not matter. He wrote it through a Christian worldview, thus truth was inevitably shown.

[Gerioke]

WSB -  I agree with Gerioke on this one:

...I also understand that he comes from a place were witchcraft and voodoo run rampant.

I even worried about him when he hadn't been around for awhile. But I have been noticing an air of discontent in a lot of his posts.

WSB, you were bitter when I first met you and you are even more bitter now. I pray that you find some spiritual nourishment, where ever you are. You have an amazing brain.

[RGR]

WSB,

You've been asked repeatedly to quit hijacking the thread, yet you continue. That sort of thing leads to being placed on moderator review, so why do you insist upon doing this?

[Giaour]

Thanks for trying Ronald.

I gave up.

No need in fighting over a series of books.