Speaking of Penguins

[Kabowd]

This entire forum reminds me of the "Tar Baby".

Doesn't it ever occur to anyone that Jesus quoted scripture for almost every answer or sermon he ever gave? And he was almost always rebuking someone in some way.

God cannot work without his word, because he IS the word. Jn. 1:1....

Whatever.

Hope someone cares what the Bible really says about sin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lolol..now we're accused of not caring what the Bible says about sin. Wow, reading comprehension really isn't your thing is it?

For clarification, I care what the Bible says about sin...but I happen to also care what it says about grace. This is the part you seem to be ignoring. But as you would say "whatever".

[Guest Zayit]

Zayit,

I saw the same news broadcast. It is weird, because I never watch CNN. I always watch Fox News. I was really taken back by this news of the penguins, but I thought it was a class of children and it was the teacher who hushed a student. Maybe I was just seeing things, but I thought there were a whole bunch of kids. So, I was appalled that a teacher would tell that to her students. But, I guess that should not surprise me. I thought the kid was pretty smart and it angered me that the adult would tell the child he was wrong. This is just another sign of the times we live in. I'm so glad that my children are all grown. I do have grandchildren, so I hope they are not being taught that kind of stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh goody, someone who actually wants to talk about the point of the OP.

CFS, I just saw it real quick but only saw the interviewer was a woman and the boy who was with what looked to be his mother, I guess I drew that conclusion because of the way she was dressed, her embarrasment and the way she was touching him as she shushed him. I didn't see any other children, but again I only saw about two minutes of this. If that was the teacher I would say that she was trying to impede the childs right of free speech or afraid what would happen if she didn't.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Zayit,

I saw the same news broadcast. It is weird, because I never watch CNN. I always watch Fox News. I was really taken back by this news of the penguins, but I thought it was a class of children and it was the teacher who hushed a student. Maybe I was just seeing things, but I thought there were a whole bunch of kids. So, I was appalled that a teacher would tell that to her students. But, I guess that should not surprise me. I thought the kid was pretty smart and it angered me that the adult would tell the child he was wrong. This is just another sign of the times we live in. I'm so glad that my children are all grown. I do have grandchildren, so I hope they are not being taught that kind of stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh goody, someone who actually wants to talk about the point of the OP.

CFS, I just saw it real quick but only saw the interviewer was a woman and the boy who was with what looked to be his mother, I guess I drew that conclusion because of the way she was dressed, her embarrasment and the way she was touching him as she shushed him. I didn't see any other children, but again I only saw about two minutes of this. If that was the teacher I would say that she was trying to impede the childs right of free speech or afraid what would happen if she didn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that is what impression I received from it, but like you, I only saw it briefly, so I may have misunderstood. It would be nice if we could do an instant replay, huh? Well... maybe not. I'd probably just get sick over it again.

I watched a little bit of Bill O'Reilly tonight and he was talking about gay clubs on high school campuses and he was showing pictures of high school kids in gay relationships and I had to close my eyes. I just could not watch it. And, I just prayed "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done here on the earth as it is in heaven." Oh, it just reminded me what Sodom and Gamorah must of been like and how much it hurts God to see all this depravity on the face of the earth.

Even so come Lord Jesus!!

[ann2]

I am sick of political correctness,sick of the word "gay" neaning what it does,sick of what the world calls news.I agree with Da Bronx-------------------------------

I WANNA GO HOME!!!!!!!!

[apothanein kerdos]

Zayit,

I saw the same news broadcast. It is weird, because I never watch CNN. I always watch Fox News. I was really taken back by this news of the penguins, but I thought it was a class of children and it was the teacher who hushed a student. Maybe I was just seeing things, but I thought there were a whole bunch of kids. So, I was appalled that a teacher would tell that to her students. But, I guess that should not surprise me. I thought the kid was pretty smart and it angered me that the adult would tell the child he was wrong. This is just another sign of the times we live in. I'm so glad that my children are all grown. I do have grandchildren, so I hope they are not being taught that kind of stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh goody, someone who actually wants to talk about the point of the OP.

CFS, I just saw it real quick but only saw the interviewer was a woman and the boy who was with what looked to be his mother, I guess I drew that conclusion because of the way she was dressed, her embarrasment and the way she was touching him as she shushed him. I didn't see any other children, but again I only saw about two minutes of this. If that was the teacher I would say that she was trying to impede the childs right of free speech or afraid what would happen if she didn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that is what impression I received from it, but like you, I only saw it briefly, so I may have misunderstood. It would be nice if we could do an instant replay, huh? Well... maybe not. I'd probably just get sick over it again.

I watched a little bit of Bill O'Reilly tonight and he was talking about gay clubs on high school campuses and he was showing pictures of high school kids in gay relationships and I had to close my eyes. I just could not watch it. And, I just prayed "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done here on the earth as it is in heaven." Oh, it just reminded me what Sodom and Gamorah must of been like and how much it hurts God to see all this depravity on the face of the earth.

Even so come Lord Jesus!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why dont' you close your eyes when you see a straight couple that's in high school? Chances are (in fact, there is about a 60-75% chance) that they're having sex and obviously they're not married...so why doesn't it bother you and make you sick and force you to pray when you see a straight couple?

How many homosexual teenagers have you reached out to? Do you not realize that the attitude you presented, while I understand the reasoning behind it, is a hinderence for those of us that actually do reach out to the homosexual community? I put my job on the line yesterday witnessing to a homosexual youth (teachers aren't suppose to share the Gospel, but sorry, I report to a higher law) and when all was said and done, I had no idea which church to send him to to "complete the process". Reason being is we look at homosexuals with such disgust and disdain that we forget we were in their shoes at one time as well. Maybe not in the realm of sexual temptation, but certainly in the realm of sinful lusts and perversion. Prior to Christ, we all made God shut His eyes. Shutting our eyes and praying whilst not taking any action on the issue only adds to the problem and offers no solution.

[Kabowd]

Zayit,

I saw the same news broadcast. It is weird, because I never watch CNN. I always watch Fox News. I was really taken back by this news of the penguins, but I thought it was a class of children and it was the teacher who hushed a student. Maybe I was just seeing things, but I thought there were a whole bunch of kids. So, I was appalled that a teacher would tell that to her students. But, I guess that should not surprise me. I thought the kid was pretty smart and it angered me that the adult would tell the child he was wrong. This is just another sign of the times we live in. I'm so glad that my children are all grown. I do have grandchildren, so I hope they are not being taught that kind of stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh goody, someone who actually wants to talk about the point of the OP.

CFS, I just saw it real quick but only saw the interviewer was a woman and the boy who was with what looked to be his mother, I guess I drew that conclusion because of the way she was dressed, her embarrasment and the way she was touching him as she shushed him. I didn't see any other children, but again I only saw about two minutes of this. If that was the teacher I would say that she was trying to impede the childs right of free speech or afraid what would happen if she didn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that is what impression I received from it, but like you, I only saw it briefly, so I may have misunderstood. It would be nice if we could do an instant replay, huh? Well... maybe not. I'd probably just get sick over it again.

I watched a little bit of Bill O'Reilly tonight and he was talking about gay clubs on high school campuses and he was showing pictures of high school kids in gay relationships and I had to close my eyes. I just could not watch it. And, I just prayed "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done here on the earth as it is in heaven." Oh, it just reminded me what Sodom and Gamorah must of been like and how much it hurts God to see all this depravity on the face of the earth.

Even so come Lord Jesus!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why dont' you close your eyes when you see a straight couple that's in high school? Chances are (in fact, there is about a 60-75% chance) that they're having sex and obviously they're not married...so why doesn't it bother you and make you sick and force you to pray when you see a straight couple?

How many homosexual teenagers have you reached out to? Do you not realize that the attitude you presented, while I understand the reasoning behind it, is a hinderence for those of us that actually do reach out to the homosexual community? I put my job on the line yesterday witnessing to a homosexual youth (teachers aren't suppose to share the Gospel, but sorry, I report to a higher law) and when all was said and done, I had no idea which church to send him to to "complete the process". Reason being is we look at homosexuals with such disgust and disdain that we forget we were in their shoes at one time as well. Maybe not in the realm of sexual temptation, but certainly in the realm of sinful lusts and perversion. Prior to Christ, we all made God shut His eyes. Shutting our eyes and praying whilst not taking any action on the issue only adds to the problem and offers no solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sometimes I think in our pursuit to be set apart and show the world we're 'different', we forget that in our piety we've offended God and the very people we're here to reach. Is homosexuality vile and offensive to God? Yes, absolutely. But so is the self-righteousness we often display when we turn our noses up to someone else's sin.

[Guest Zayit]

Making a broad sweep there Tess, I was not turning up my nose , nor being self righteous. I come from the old school, the one thirty or so years ago that did not teach in school that homosexuality was 'alright if that was their preference'. I posted about this little news clip, not over the penguin issue, but the mother or teacher and the little boy. Somehow he knew that this was wrong, but an adult, who has the responsibility to teach children tells him that he is wrong, that its 'OK, if that is your preference' is what is twisted.

Just as it seems your generation has been taught that we must love the sinner but not the sin and homosexuality is no different than any other sin, this child is now being raised in the generation of "Its OK, if that is their preference' which makes it no longer even a sin.

Can you see the degeneration?

It is already a hate crime to even speak of this, but yet what other sins are hate speech?

Yes we are called to love everyone, but we are not called to softsoap their sin, which encompasses their whole life.

Do you know why it is such a sin? because it perverts the order of G-ds creation.

It also serves another purpose as well , especially with the world wide push for equal marriage rights, that Messiah is the head of his body, he is also the bridegroom, those who have put their trust in him are his body and wife. And as Paul says in Ephesians, Husbands love your wives even as Messiah also loved the church and gave himself for it. Marriage between a man and woman uphold the heirachy the L-rd established.

1 Cor. But I would have you know , that the head of ev ery man is Messiah, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Messiah is G-d.

There is an order, a perfect order

Satan tried to break this down all the way back in the garden. There is an order, the woman's head is her husband, that is her authority, and the mans head, or authority is Messiah, and Messiah's G-d.

That is the law and order of the creator with mankind. but when you put two men together or two women, what happens to that order?

[Christ's Free Servant]

Why dont' you close your eyes when you see a straight couple that's in high school? Chances are (in fact, there is about a 60-75% chance) that they're having sex and obviously they're not married...so why doesn't it bother you and make you sick and force you to pray when you see a straight couple?

How many homosexual teenagers have you reached out to? Do you not realize that the attitude you presented, while I understand the reasoning behind it, is a hinderence for those of us that actually do reach out to the homosexual community? I put my job on the line yesterday witnessing to a homosexual youth (teachers aren't suppose to share the Gospel, but sorry, I report to a higher law) and when all was said and done, I had no idea which church to send him to to "complete the process". Reason being is we look at homosexuals with such disgust and disdain that we forget we were in their shoes at one time as well. Maybe not in the realm of sexual temptation, but certainly in the realm of sinful lusts and perversion. Prior to Christ, we all made God shut His eyes. Shutting our eyes and praying whilst not taking any action on the issue only adds to the problem and offers no solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't remember who said this:

Sometimes I think in our pursuit to be set apart and show the world we're 'different', we forget that in our piety we've offended God and the very people we're here to reach. Is homosexuality vile and offensive to God? Yes, absolutely. But so is the self-righteousness we often display when we turn our noses up to someone else's sin.

Super Jew,

In your opening paragraph you made a wrong assumption. You assumed that if I saw a straight couple in a sexual relationship outside of marriage that it would not send me to my knees in prayer just as much as when I saw a gay couple. That is a wrong assumption. If you knew me, you would not have made that assumption. I pray all the time for people who are in bondage to sin of any kind. And, sexual sin traps people in a way that just ruins their lives. The Bible states that homosexual behavior is an abomination to the Lord along with some other sins. I am not condemning these people. I ache for them. I hurt for them. I know what sin does. I, too, am a sinner, and I know what it means to be in bondage to serious sin. That is why I closed my eyes. I remember what it was like to be in the very throngs of sin's grip and it hurts to see others doing the same - not necessarily the same sin, but just as bad. I've been to hell and back and it is no picnic (not literally, but figuratively). I know how must it must hurt Jesus to see this, and what hurts him hurts me.

In your second paragraph you made another wrong assumption. You assumed that just because I chose not to look at males on TV being openly gay with each other that meant I closed my eyes to these social and sin issues and that I would treat a gay person with contempt. That is also a false assumption. I would hate the sin but love the sinner. The church God has called me and my husband to plant is a church that reaches out to all people. We don't allow people in leadership positions who are willfully living sinful lifestyles in direct disobedience to God, but we treat all people the same. If God were to bring a gay person across my path, I would not treat that person any differently than I would treat a straight person. My goal would be first to love the person where he or she is, then to teach him or her God's truths and hopefully he or she would accept Christ, then I would lovingly talk with them about their sinful lifestyle. I have confronted many young people in love with their sinful lifestyles and have offered to help them to overcome their bondage to sin - to restore them to a walk of faith in Christ. Some have chosen to continue in sin and others have grown in their walk with the Lord and have experienced freedom from sin.

You made the statement: "Shutting our eyes and praying whilst not taking any action on the issue only adds to the problem and offers no solution." Again, you made a false assumption. I am not closing my eyes to the depravity of man. I just chose not to watch it on TV. And, I am not just praying and no action. Every day I pray for opportunities to show God's love to people and for the past seven years my husband and I have dedicated our lives to ministering to the needs of young adults and to help them find answers to the problems of their lives. I don't know how many lives we have touched, because I did not count, but there were hundreds of young adults whose lives we touched for Jesus. So, I am praying, but I am also acting upon that faith.

The next quote above I don't recall who said it. Yes, what you are saying is true, but be careful that you don't make false judgments based on little information. I did not see anyone turning up their nose at another's sin, but then I did not read all of the comments. If you were referring to my comments, they were not intended as snobbery. I have been in the depths of sin and it hurts me to watch others do the same. I know it hurt God when I did it and it hurts him to see man so far away from him now. And, what hurts him hurts me. And, what really upset me about the Penguin story was that what I thought I saw was an adult telling a child that his instinct about the wrongness of humans in homosexual relationships was incorrect. I think we can teach love for mankind without teaching tolerance for sin. What if she told him that it was ok to murder or to steal or to be a sexual predator if that was his personal preference? I am already seeing the world of psychology excusing away every sin as some kind of "condition" to the point to where young people are convinced that if they just take a pill that their problems will be solved and when they are not solved they take another pill, and these are just lies of Satan. People are in bondage to sin and sin hurts people and we should all get on our knees before God and pray that God will open the eyes of these people to see their bondage and to show them the way to the light.

[Kabowd]

Geeze, are we feeling a little convicted or what? I never said "Zayit does this" or "Christ's Servant" does that. I never pointed a finger specifically at anyone. I made a statement based on some of the comments and attitudes I've seen expressed all over this board by SEVERAL people, but particularly in this thread. If you want to take offense, or spend paragraphs devoted to defending yourself, have at it if it eases your conscience to do so.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Geeze, are we feeling a little convicted or what? I never said "Zayit does this" or "Christ's Servant" does that. I never pointed a finger specifically at anyone. I made a statement based on some of the comments and attitudes I've seen expressed all over this board by SEVERAL people, but particularly in this thread. If you want to take offense, or spend paragraphs devoted to defending yourself, have at it if it eases your conscience to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tess,

Ease up! I believe I said I did not know to whom you were responding, and since you did not make it clear, I was responding in the possibility that you may have been referring to my comments. If you were not, then that's ok, but your second response leads me to believe that I was grouped in with those you were addressing, since you stated that I was under conviction and that I was easing my conscience by my response to you. Don't you see that as judgmental? I am not convicted about anything and I am not easing my conscience. I am addressing a problem I often see here and I am seeing it in your response and that is the problem of judgmentalism - making a quick judgment about someone based on little information.

There are two kinds of judging. One is the right kind, which judges sin with knowledge and for the purpose of resolving the problem, addressing the situation and for the purpose of restoration. This is based on fact. Fact is homosexual behavior is sin. The Bible states so. So, if someone is openly living in sin, it is not wrong to see this as wrong. That does not make me "judgmental."

On the other hand, the other kind of judging is wrong, and that is the kind you are doing. You are judging the thoughts and intents of my heart. You are assuming I have something I should feel convicted about in this discussion, so you are making an assumption that I am sinning in some way because I see homosexual behavior as sin. Or, you are assuming an attitude in my heart that I do not possess. That is judgmentalism.

So, the purpose in my response was not to defend wrong behavior out of some sense of conviction. It was to address wrong behavior on the part of you and Super Jew who were making false assumptions and were forming opinions without knowledge. I was cautioning you both against taking a few comments by someone and forming an opinion about that person's heart attitude. Just be careful. That's all I am saying. Listen to people, and if you are not sure what they are saying, ask. Don't assume. If I made some wrong assumptions about what you were saying, I'm sorry. But, your second response does not lead me to believe I did so.