Frustrated In Trying To Understand Faith

[AdHoc]

13 hours ago, Open7 said:

Thanks for all your help everyone. I know God is not always going to heal people in the moment, but in this scene in Matthew 17, I’m not really sure what it is teaching us.

The disciples said to Jesus ‘why could we not cast it out?’ And Jesus said because of their little faith, so their faith must have been smaller than a mustard seed. We can say God doesn’t always heal someone for his reasons, but in this case we see he wanted to because Jesus did it. Meaning, healing was blocked from the disciples, implying there’s something not right on their end. And by this point they have been around Jesus a while now, seeing many amazing things, yet of all people on planet earth, even they didn’t have the right faith?!

I know there is treasure in these verses but I just can’t find it yet

You are right. If our Lord Jess said it was lack of faith, it was lack of faith. But there is a story behind this. Have you ever asked yourself why the Lord took only THREE of TWELVE up the mountain to be part of His coming in His Kingdom?

Without claiming to know the answer (for all remaining 11 will be in the coming Kingdom on Seats judging Israel), it would seem that something was missing. I mean, in Matthew 14:31 our Lord called a man who had just walked on water "of little faith".

But there is another point which some have already alluded to. It is no good to have any amount of faith in something that God has not ordained. In Eden, God barred man from the Tree of Life so that this corrupted and damaged man would die. Death serves God's purpose enormously because then comes resurrection which ends the Adamic nature. So all men will die (1st Cor.15:22) except those living Christians at Christ's coming. But these still need a change (1st Cor.15:50-54).

You can have faith as a mountain and still not save one man from death. And a man's body is corrupt to such an extent that it is called severally "the body of this death" and "this vile body". Paul said that we "groan" in this body. So we must not be surprised when it gets sick unto death. If God has orained 58 years for one and 78 years for another, all the faith in the world will not help.

But this does not mean your faith is of no value. How much more is a man's faith needed when God's will is obscure. Why is Abraham so revered by scripture? Because he believed in the impossible. He was promised a land and in the next breath was told that he would die before he got the land. He believed God anyway and in doing so believed in resurrection. But a more sever test awaited him. He is told to sacrifice Isaac. But Isaac had no children yet, but God had promised Abraham seed "as the sand of the sea shore" from Isaac. But now resurrection would not help. Why? Because in resurrection men are like angels and do not marry or have children (Lk.20:35-36). Abraham believed anyway. How?

Abraham did not mull impossibilities. If God had said it, it would come to pass. It God had not said it, it wold NOT come to pass. It lies in the councils of God - not faith. Faith is for believing that God will get it right. This is small comfort when a man's child is dying, But it is what faith is about. It is about what you CAN'T see (Heb.11:1). Lazarus' relations believed that our Lord could heal him. They even believed in the resurrection. But where they failed was that God could do both and still glorify Himself. This is what makes faith special. Faith says that God can heal a sick child. But faith must be able to say that the death of the child serves God and men! How? I don't know, but God says "ALL things" in Romans 8:29.

A prayer unanswered is not that. It is God saying; "I have better idea". Be patient. Abraham has waited 4,000 years for that piece of Land - so long in fact that some Bible teachers teach that Abraham will go to heaven instead. NO! The country and city are NOT IN heaven, but heavenly IN NATURE. Where is your reward? Stored in heaven. What is its nature? heavenly. When will you get it? When Christ COMES! - NOT when you go! Can you see Abraham taking Israel when the combined power of all nations refuses him? The nations sit on atomic weapons, while Abraham's bones languish in Machpelah. What does it look like? Sight says; "what a joke"! Faith says; "The councils of the ALL-mighty are immutable". Abraham - long dead and returned to the dust of Canaan WILL inherit this same Canaan as "an everlasting possession".

Here's a test. See how many Christians really believe that - and you will have the true state of faith on earth today.

[kwikphilly]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:31 AM, Open7 said:

Thanks for all your help everyone. I know God is not always going to heal people in the moment, but in this scene in Matthew 17, I’m not really sure what it is teaching us.

The disciples said to Jesus ‘why could we not cast it out?’ And Jesus said because of their little faith, so their faith must have been smaller than a mustard seed. We can say God doesn’t always heal someone for his reasons, but in this case we see he wanted to because Jesus did it. Meaning, healing was blocked from the disciples, implying there’s something not right on their end. And by this point they have been around Jesus a while now, seeing many amazing things, yet of all people on planet earth, even they didn’t have the right faith?!

I know there is treasure in these verses but I just can’t find it yet

Blessings Dear one

As I said earlier..... They were wondering why " they" could not cast this demon out.....

Now go back & read my previous reply...... The Faith as someone said earlier is not about the amount but the object.... Another great tidbit

The " Healing,Deliverance" & any other supernatural thing that takes place certainly is not done by natural people.... These ordinary people could do Extraordinary things by the POWER of Holy Spirit..... Any time a little " self" gets in the mix that is a hindrance,an obstacle for Holy Spirit

Everyone has heard the expression " let go,let God" ,right? Well,there is so much " treasure" in those 4 little words Beloved

Our Faith must always be about WHO( object of our Faith)... Not " why couldn't "I"..... See? Prayer & Fasting is a means to purge " self" ,starving the flesh to feed the Spirit in a sense

Hope that helps a bit.....and yes,God Knows the Plans He Has for each of us( we don't)- the manifestation of Healing when we ask might not be THE PLAN at that time....

Keep Believing,Keep on doing what the Lord puts on your heart to do and give Him Glory in ALL things....

With love in Christ, Kwik

[Dennis1209]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:15 PM, AdHoc said:

But there is a story behind this. Have you ever asked yourself why the Lord took only THREE of TWELVE up the mountain to be part of His coming in His Kingdom?

Yes, I have; perhaps you will share your thoughts. Peter, James, and John are called Jesus’s inner circle. They witnessed the Transfiguration, resurrections, and other things the other disciples were not privileged to witness.

Is there any scripture that suggests why they were set apart from the others?

[JohnD]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:00 AM, Open7 said:

In matthew 17:14-22 Jesus heals a boy with a demon, and says to his disciples that they have little faith because they could not heal the boy.

I just don’t feel I understand faith in this sense. I have prayed for people with what I felt was a mustard seed size amount of faith, and the healing doesn’t come, this has happened many times. So it seems my faith must be even smaller than a mustard seed, or not even exist at all?

I know God is not going to heal someone every time, but the amount of times I have tried and also seen others do the same, and I see nothing happen.

So when Jesus says you only need faith the size of a mustard seed, and I see nothing happen, I just don’t know what else to do.

Can anyone help?

You almost said the answer in your point "I just don’t feel I understand faith..."

Faith is not just belief. Faith is understanding as well.

You can insert "belief" for faith at times... "understand" at other times.

By faith, Abraham understood God could raise the dead when he told him to sacrifice his son Isaac... 

I have seen people healed miraculously. But it had nothing to do with me.

And it was never by putting God on trial as some seem to try... "you said this, so we expect that..."

Also it was never to try to manipulate God into being someone's personal Genie.

It was sincere, intercessory prayer from many begging the LORD's will be to heal that someone

in humble petition ASKING God (who we understood is in Authority, in charge, and who is the only one

to decide whether or not to grant the desperate plea).

I am not implying anything... but ask yourself, was it to see if God would do it? Heal someone at your request?

Or to see if God still does things like he did in the Bible?

Part of understanding God can heal is that he does so only if it is his will or if it accomplishes what he wants to be done

in the lives of all involved.

I sometimes wonder what our motives are... praying for others, witnessing to others... sincerity, humility? Or something else?

Not implying anything or impugning anyone here. Just soul searching, I suppose.

God is not oblivious as to our true motives in anything.

[Billiards Ball]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:00 AM, Open7 said:

In matthew 17:14-22 Jesus heals a boy with a demon, and says to his disciples that they have little faith because they could not heal the boy.

I just don’t feel I understand faith in this sense. I have prayed for people with what I felt was a mustard seed size amount of faith, and the healing doesn’t come, this has happened many times. So it seems my faith must be even smaller than a mustard seed, or not even exist at all?

I know God is not going to heal someone every time, but the amount of times I have tried and also seen others do the same, and I see nothing happen.

So when Jesus says you only need faith the size of a mustard seed, and I see nothing happen, I just don’t know what else to do.

Can anyone help?

Spiritual faith/trust comes from God--sometimes in healing God will let you know your prayer shall work!

[Open7]

Thanks so much everyone.

One thing I have been thinking is that it seems there needs to be 2 things that happen for healing to come.

1. That God wants and is giving the green light for a person to be healed.

2. A person to pray for the person to be healed, which requires faith of a certain size.

When these two match up, it happens. How does that sound? I know I’m may be oversimplifying it here thought

[AdHoc]

On 10/17/2022 at 2:16 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Yes, I have; perhaps you will share your thoughts. Peter, James, and John are called Jesus’s inner circle. They witnessed the Transfiguration, resurrections, and other things the other disciples were not privileged to witness.

Is there any scripture that suggests why they were set apart from the others?

I include @kwikphillyand @Open7 as they expressed interest in your answer.

The events in Egypt with God's people are marvelous - from the burning bush to the crossing of the Read Sea. But, marvelous as the Egyptian experience was to Israel, it was FOR something greater - the fulfillment of God's Promise to Abraham that Israel would occupy and possess Canaan. The sojourn in the Wilderness was just to prepare Israel for a life commensurate with being God's People and having God dwell with them.

And although the single greatest event of history is our Lord's sacrifice on Golgotha, IT WAS FOR SOMETHING. It was to raise up a People who would be equipped to fulfill God's plan with man that man would be in the image and likeness of Christ, and subdue and rule the earth with a Godly standard. Salvation is FOR the Kingdom - the time that God will exercise godly and righteous rule on EARTH. The word "saved" and "salvation" are each used about 40 times in the New Testament. The word "Kingdom" is used over 160 times. The main subject of the New Testament is the Kingdom that God will set up through Christ and His disciple ON EARTH.

Now, while Israel, to the last man, were saved in Egypt and released by Pharaoh, only TWO of the 600,000 fighting men of Israel made it into Canaan. 1st Corinthians 10:1-11 says the Israel is an example to us Christians. That is, many thousands and even millions of men and women will become Christians. BUT VERY FEW will make the lofty goal of being selected by Christ to "rule the earth, sea and sky, and all that is in them ".

In the Parables on the Kingdom, in direct statements like Galatians 5:21, and in Types and Pictures, God shows that while salvation, sonship to God by rebirth and eternal life are all GIFTS of God, to enter His Kingdom must be EARNED. And one of the Types of this is the Mount of Transfiguration. It shows a number of things:

1. "After 6 days" shows it being on the 7th day - the seventh "day of 1,000 years for God"
2. "A high mountain" shows that it is important, high and heavenly
3. "Jesus comes in glory" - a foretaste of Jesus Coming at the end of this age
4. "Moses and Elijah" speak for the Old Testament men of SERVICE - not only faith
5. "Moses" speaks for the dead saints resurrected for he was dead and his body fought for
6. "Elijah" speaks for the living saints at Christ's coming
7. "BOTH Moses and Eliah" speak for the living and resurrected  saints "taken UP" on high
8. The three disciples are "Taken" (paralambano - Gk.) speak for the servants "Taken" (Matt.24:40-42)
9. The nine are servants too - but "LEFT"
10. The Three are "on high" in fellowship with the Lord. The Nine are overcome by a demon in the "lowlands"
11. The narrative starts in Chapter 16 with what a disciple must DO to enter the kingdom
12. The narrative shows the ineffectiveness of Law. It is "HEAR HIM (Jesus) - NOT Moses of Elijah

The Christians who think that because forgiveness of sins, rebirth, everlasting life and sonship to God are FREE, are like the foolish Virgins. They thought extra oil for the Vessl was FREE. It was not! They had to go and buy AFTER the resurrection!

[Dennis1209]

29 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I include @kwikphillyand @Open7 as they expressed interest in your answer.

The events in Egypt with God's people are marvelous - from the burning bush to the crossing of the Read Sea. But, marvelous as the Egyptian experience was to Israel, it was FOR something greater - the fulfillment of God's Promise to Abraham that Israel would occupy and possess Canaan. The sojourn in the Wilderness was just to prepare Israel for a life commensurate with being God's People and having God dwell with them.

And although the single greatest event of history is our Lord's sacrifice on Golgotha, IT WAS FOR SOMETHING. It was to raise up a People who would be equipped to fulfill God's plan with man that man would be in the image and likeness of Christ, and subdue and rule the earth with a Godly standard. Salvation is FOR the Kingdom - the time that God will exercise godly and righteous rule on EARTH. The word "saved" and "salvation" are each used about 40 times in the New Testament. The word "Kingdom" is used over 160 times. The main subject of the New Testament is the Kingdom that God will set up through Christ and His disciple ON EARTH.

Now, while Israel, to the last man, were saved in Egypt and released by Pharaoh, only TWO of the 600,000 fighting men of Israel made it into Canaan. 1st Corinthians 10:1-11 says the Israel is an example to us Christians. That is, many thousands and even millions of men and women will become Christians. BUT VERY FEW will make the lofty goal of being selected by Christ to "rule the earth, sea and sky, and all that is in them ".

In the Parables on the Kingdom, in direct statements like Galatians 5:21, and in Types and Pictures, God shows that while salvation, sonship to God by rebirth and eternal life are all GIFTS of God, to enter His Kingdom must be EARNED. And one of the Types of this is the Mount of Transfiguration. It shows a number of things:

1. "After 6 days" shows it being on the 7th day - the seventh "day of 1,000 years for God"
2. "A high mountain" shows that it is important, high and heavenly
3. "Jesus comes in glory" - a foretaste of Jesus Coming at the end of this age
4. "Moses and Elijah" speak for the Old Testament men of SERVICE - not only faith
5. "Moses" speaks for the dead saints resurrected for he was dead and his body fought for
6. "Elijah" speaks for the living saints at Christ's coming
7. "BOTH Moses and Eliah" speak for the living and resurrected  saints "taken UP" on high
8. The three disciples are "Taken" (paralambano - Gk.) speak for the servants "Taken" (Matt.24:40-42)
9. The nine are servants too - but "LEFT"
10. The Three are "on high" in fellowship with the Lord. The Nine are overcome by a demon in the "lowlands"
11. The narrative starts in Chapter 16 with what a disciple must DO to enter the kingdom
12. The narrative shows the ineffectiveness of Law. It is "HEAR HIM (Jesus) - NOT Moses of Elijah

The Christians who think that because forgiveness of sins, rebirth, everlasting life and sonship to God are FREE, are like the foolish Virgins. They thought extra oil for the Vessl was FREE. It was not! They had to go and buy AFTER the resurrection!

Thank you! Once again you make some excellent points I did not see. 

[missmuffet]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:00 AM, Open7 said:

In matthew 17:14-22 Jesus heals a boy with a demon, and says to his disciples that they have little faith because they could not heal the boy.

I just don’t feel I understand faith in this sense. I have prayed for people with what I felt was a mustard seed size amount of faith, and the healing doesn’t come, this has happened many times. So it seems my faith must be even smaller than a mustard seed, or not even exist at all?

I know God is not going to heal someone every time, but the amount of times I have tried and also seen others do the same, and I see nothing happen.

So when Jesus says you only need faith the size of a mustard seed, and I see nothing happen, I just don’t know what else to do.

Can anyone help?

God is not always going to answer our prayers the way we want Him to answer our prayers. God answers our prayers with a yes, no or I have something better. 

[kwikphilly]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

I include @kwikphillyand @Open7 as they expressed interest in your answer.

The events in Egypt with God's people are marvelous - from the burning bush to the crossing of the Read Sea. But, marvelous as the Egyptian experience was to Israel, it was FOR something greater - the fulfillment of God's Promise to Abraham that Israel would occupy and possess Canaan. The sojourn in the Wilderness was just to prepare Israel for a life commensurate with being God's People and having God dwell with them.

And although the single greatest event of history is our Lord's sacrifice on Golgotha, IT WAS FOR SOMETHING. It was to raise up a People who would be equipped to fulfill God's plan with man that man would be in the image and likeness of Christ, and subdue and rule the earth with a Godly standard. Salvation is FOR the Kingdom - the time that God will exercise godly and righteous rule on EARTH. The word "saved" and "salvation" are each used about 40 times in the New Testament. The word "Kingdom" is used over 160 times. The main subject of the New Testament is the Kingdom that God will set up through Christ and His disciple ON EARTH.

Now, while Israel, to the last man, were saved in Egypt and released by Pharaoh, only TWO of the 600,000 fighting men of Israel made it into Canaan. 1st Corinthians 10:1-11 says the Israel is an example to us Christians. That is, many thousands and even millions of men and women will become Christians. BUT VERY FEW will make the lofty goal of being selected by Christ to "rule the earth, sea and sky, and all that is in them ".

In the Parables on the Kingdom, in direct statements like Galatians 5:21, and in Types and Pictures, God shows that while salvation, sonship to God by rebirth and eternal life are all GIFTS of God, to enter His Kingdom must be EARNED. And one of the Types of this is the Mount of Transfiguration. It shows a number of things:

1. "After 6 days" shows it being on the 7th day - the seventh "day of 1,000 years for God"
2. "A high mountain" shows that it is important, high and heavenly
3. "Jesus comes in glory" - a foretaste of Jesus Coming at the end of this age
4. "Moses and Elijah" speak for the Old Testament men of SERVICE - not only faith
5. "Moses" speaks for the dead saints resurrected for he was dead and his body fought for
6. "Elijah" speaks for the living saints at Christ's coming
7. "BOTH Moses and Eliah" speak for the living and resurrected  saints "taken UP" on high
8. The three disciples are "Taken" (paralambano - Gk.) speak for the servants "Taken" (Matt.24:40-42)
9. The nine are servants too - but "LEFT"
10. The Three are "on high" in fellowship with the Lord. The Nine are overcome by a demon in the "lowlands"
11. The narrative starts in Chapter 16 with what a disciple must DO to enter the kingdom
12. The narrative shows the ineffectiveness of Law. It is "HEAR HIM (Jesus) - NOT Moses of Elijah

The Christians who think that because forgiveness of sins, rebirth, everlasting life and sonship to God are FREE, are like the foolish Virgins. They thought extra oil for the Vessl was FREE. It was not! They had to go and buy AFTER the resurrection!

Blessings AdHoc .

Well said,I like your analogies as well---there is really nothing better than the simplicity in what is Written,yes marvelous events point to more marvelous events that will come to pass Good read,nicely done---- I'm not one for overcomplicating Gods Will

Thanks & God Bless you " marvelously"❤️

With love in Christ, Kwik