Did Lucifer really take a third of the angels with him?

[Khaz]

4 hours ago, Michael37 said:

From my saved notes:

I believe Scripture teaches Lucifer was perfect in all his ways and did not act in opposition to God until he allowed pride of place to make him jealous of Adam and Eve due to their relationship with the Lord. Having decided to contradict God and deceive Adam and Eve he become Satan the adversary, a beginning that was motivated to cause the spiritual and physical death of previously perfect mankind.  

Satan means Adversary, namely to God, so it was Lucifer who was created perfect and he was not Satan until he opposed God in Eden, linked with the serpent ever since, both serpent and dragon elsewhere in Scripture depicted in representations of him, not forgetting that he is also capable of appearing as an angel of light (see 2 Cor 11:14). 

These two analogies with the king of Tyre and king of Babylon give us a timeline of Lucifer being found with iniquity in him and subsequent casting out of the highest heaven which he inhabited as well as Eden [ see this article What Are the Three Heavens? (blueletterbible.org)].

Eze 28:12-15  "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.  (13)  You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.  (14)  "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.  (15)  You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

Isa 14:12-14  "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!  (13)  For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;  (14)  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

I also read in the book of wisdom that the Devil was jealous. But why would he be jealous of Gods relationship with Eve and Adam? I mean, God had relationship with many creatures beside Lucifer already. Why was he in particular jealous of humans? 

The bible describes the Devil as an enemy of humans. Hence he is also the adversary of humans. 

But why he hates humans and wants to be our enemy, is a question i wondered about alot. 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Khaz

[Jayne]

31 minutes ago, Khaz said:

I also read in the book of wisdom that the Devil was jealous. But why would he be jealous of Gods relationship with Eve and Adam? I mean, God had relationship with many creatures beside Lucifer already. Why was he in particular jealous of humans? 

The bible describes the Devil as an enemy of humans. Hence he is also the adversary of humans. 

But why he hates humans and wants to be our enemy, is a question i wondered about alot. 

 

The Book of Wisdom is not scripture.  It contains error.  I would not put any stock in it.

 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Khaz said:

I also read in the book of wisdom that the Devil was jealous. But why would he be jealous of Gods relationship with Eve and Adam? I mean, God had relationship with many creatures beside Lucifer already. Why was he in particular jealous of humans? 

The bible describes the Devil as an enemy of humans. Hence he is also the adversary of humans. 

But why he hates humans and wants to be our enemy, is a question i wondered about alot. 

Before our Universe was created Lucifer held a prominent position. What creatures existed in God's economy before He created the earth and assigned humankind to a place of dominion over its inhabitants is a subject for another discussion, but the fact remains that Lucifer became Satan when he sought to usurp God's supremacy, and proceeded to corrupt, deceive, and exploit God's formerly perfect creation.    

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

Isa 14:12-14  "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!  (13)  For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;  (14)  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees had this to say about the Devil/Satan:

Joh 8:44  You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

No persons or beings or elements of existence are valued by Satan in any way other than as tools by which he can exalt himself to be higher than God. Satan thinks he can enslave humanity to do his will which is to destroy God's Kingdom and surplant it with his own. That is why there is conflict, so the choice is whether to serve Satan and be damned with him, or serve God and be saved by Christ to receive eternal life. 

[Khaz]

8 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Before our Universe was created Lucifer held a prominent position. What creatures existed in God's economy before He created the earth and assigned humankind to a place of dominion over its inhabitants is a subject for another discussion, but the fact remains that Lucifer became Satan when he sought to usurp God's supremacy, and proceeded to corrupt, deceive, and exploit God's formerly perfect creation.    

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

Isa 14:12-14  "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!  (13)  For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;  (14)  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees had this to say about the Devil/Satan:

Joh 8:44  You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

No persons or beings or elements of existence are valued by Satan in any way other than as tools by which he can exalt himself to be higher than God. Satan thinks he can enslave humanity to do his will which is to destroy God's Kingdom and surplant it with his own. That is why there is conflict, so the choice is whether to serve Satan and be damned with him, or serve God and be saved by Christ to receive eternal life. 

I know we are Christians but I remember that in religion class I came across a verse in the Quran were Lucifer was mentioned: 

'' Surely We created you then shaped you, then said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam,” so they all did—but not Lucifer who refused to prostrate with the others.

Allah asked, “What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?” He replied, “I am better than he is: You created me from fire and him from clay.”

So according to this, Lucifer felt he was better than humans and hence refused to honor or subject himself to humans. 

Could it be something the Bible agrees with? 

[Michael37]

25 minutes ago, Khaz said:

I know we are Christians but I remember that in religion class I came across a verse in the Quran were Lucifer was mentioned: 

'' Surely We created you then shaped you, then said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam,” so they all did—but not Lucifer who refused to prostrate with the others.

Allah asked, “What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?” He replied, “I am better than he is: You created me from fire and him from clay.”

So according to this, Lucifer felt he was better than humans and hence refused to honor or subject himself to humans. 

Could it be something the Bible agrees with? 

Since the Genesis account and the whole Bible conclusively predates the Quran it is highly likely, as it is with much literature containing Bible themes, that material from it has been borrowed and adapted.

Biblical Theology is built around the conflict that Satan is involved in. There is never any possibility that God will be overthrown by Satan, just the certainty that the latter will keep trying to abase the former.

Mat 4:8-10  Again, the devil took him to an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory.  (9)  He said to him, “I will give you all of these things, if you will fall down and worship me.”  (10)  Then Jesus said to him, “Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve him only.’”

[other one]

12 hours ago, Khaz said:

I also read in the book of wisdom that the Devil was jealous. But why would he be jealous of Gods relationship with Eve and Adam? I mean, God had relationship with many creatures beside Lucifer already. Why was he in particular jealous of humans? 

The bible describes the Devil as an enemy of humans. Hence he is also the adversary of humans. 

But why he hates humans and wants to be our enemy, is a question i wondered about alot. 

 

1 Cor 6:3
3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels?
NASB