God's True Purpose For Israel

[Smalcald]

So far, nothing on this thread has anything to do with Christian Zionism.

Christian Zionists are Christians who believe that the Jewish people have a right to live in peace and security in their own Land.

[Guest shiloh357]

So far, nothing on this thread has anything to do with Christian Zionism.

Christian Zionists are Christians who believe that the Jewish people have a right to live in peace and security in their own Land.

[Smalcald]

If the state of Israel is by God, then I certainly don't want to stand in opposition to God, and you are correct Israel cannot be overthrown regardless of what we do.

However I defend Israel because it is a Democracy surrounded by a bunch of un-democratic despot nations and terrorists that seek its destruction. My support simply seeks what is logical, and that is Israel

[Jake for Jesus]

Greetings in Jesus to all.

I am going to expose the errors of Christian Zionism in this discussion.

But before I do I want to first share this with you so my posts will be not misunderstood by anyone.

When the Devil is unable to blind Christians to the prophetic purposes of God concerning Israel and the Jews, his next deception is to divert Christians into errors of Christian Zionism.

I would preface matters by pointing out that there are valid evangelical organizations such as "Pray for Israel" and "Christian Friends of Israel" which are both Christian and pro-Zionist. They are moderates, Christ-centic as opposed to Israel-centric, and therefore biblically balanced in their approach. They stand for Israel's right to exist, warn of dangers of Islam to Judeo/Christian civilization, work to point the Christian church back towards it Hebrew root. They do not, however, turn their backs on the local Body of Christ in order to placate the Rabbis and cultivate good relations with Israeli politicians. While these organizations will are not evangelistic, they do stand with the Israeli Messianic believers in their quest to evangelize Israel, and the people of these oganizations will often share their faith on a personal low key basis.

Now, I want to make this very clear that my argument is with only with those organizations which have agreed to withhold the gospel to the Jewish people, and in some cases have even taught against presenting it.

Respectfully,

Jacob

Edited October 3, 2005 by Jake for Jesus

[Jake for Jesus]

I WILL REQUIRE THEIR BLOOD AT YOUR HANDS

I am going to begin now to talk more about the errors of Christians Zionism.

Some of these organizations repeatedly enter into agreements with the Israel government and various other Jewish authorities, which require that they agree not to present the gospel to Jewish people, but rather to consentrate on loving Jewish people with some love other than the love of Christ. A love for the Jews which fails to give Jews the gospel of Jesus Christ, is not the love of Christ. It is a fleshly infatuation with Jews.

The Jewish people are perishing without their Messiah.

Nazis sent Jews to gas chambers, but Chrisrtian Zionism, by withholding the gospel from Jews, are in effect sending them to hell.

Please do not misunderstand. It is not my purpose to judge or condemn individuals, only to condemn the false doctrines of any organization which is in rebellion against the Word of God ---- and leading others into that rebellion.

For example, it was at first shocking to me to have learned that some years ago. That the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, and other organizations like it, had often counted good relations with right wing Israeli politicians and rabbinic authorites who are responsible for anti-missionary laws in Israel.

Even more shocking was to have learned the International Christian Embassy some years ago published a mission statement with a covering letter explaining its position on non-evangelization of Jews. It claimed to fulfill Isaiah chapter 40 by comforting Israel, telling Israel that her iniquity is removed --- without telling Israel the gospel message which is the only biblical way her iniquity can be removed. To say the sin of Israel can be removed without the blood of Jesus ---- the Jewish Messiah ---- is a blasphemous hersesy known as "dual covenant theology."

Respectfully,

Jacob

Edited October 3, 2005 by Jake for Jesus

[Guest yod]

ya know Jake...I used to think you had something constructive to say.

The entire premise of your first post is just ignorant.

You have taken your bias about what you "think" Zionists are and spread it across the board to everyone who says they support Israel on any level

it's just stupidity to imply that Christian Zionists are agents of satan.

Yes, some Zionist groups have signed an agreement that says their humanitarian organization will not manipulate or use coercion to proselytize those whom they are helping.

Do we have any right to insist that all hurricane evacuess from New Orleans must sit through a gospel presentation before the church will help them? What about all the aid we sent to (largely muslim) tsunami victims? Are you saying that Franklin Graham is also an agent of satan for his humanitarian efforts through Samaritan's Purse?

Regarding Bridges for Peace; They have given the gospel to the jews louder than ANYTHING you have done here by presenting Jesus to them in practical ways instead of just a bunch of yapping.

Everyone in Israel knows they are christians. And everyone who recieves the humanitarian aid they offer knows it comes from christians.

What more needs to be said from a HUMANITARIAN organization?

They have opened the door for Israelis to hear what christians have to say by building a bride of peace, respect, and trust between us.

[angels4u]

Zionism is:

The National Liberation movement of the Jewish People.

It is the modern expression of the ancient longing by the Jewish People to return to their land and live as a free people once again.

It is the desire to secure a modern state for the Jewish nation.

It is the conviction that the Jewish people has the right to live in freedom and security in its homeland.

It is the determination to aid and encourage the return of any and all Jewish refugees of the Diaspora who wish to return home.

It is the concern for the safety and security of that modern state, and the desire to see it strong enough to defend itself and the Jewish people as a whole from any present or future existential threat.

Christian Zionism affirms the above. We stand shoulder to shoulder with the Jewish people in their struggle for survival in world that is hostile to them. We stand with Israel to correct the inaccurate portrayal of Israel in the media. Israel is the only nation in the world that has to justify its right to exist. Christian Zionism is here to make known to the world that Israel exists by Divine right, and her rebirth is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. We endeavor to live by God's edict: "Those who bless you I will bless, and those who curse you, I will curse."

Amen and amen!!!

And thats the end of the story :Those who bless you I will bless, and those who curse you, I will curse."

[angels4u]

God still loves the Jews, for the "sake of the Fathers", but until they enter into the New Covenant, they will NOT BE regathered to their Land.

This is not what the Bible teaches, God WILL and is bringing the people back to Israel and someday He will give them a new heart and will write the laws in their heart.

[apothanein kerdos]

Temple burned in 70AD

Go to war with the Roman army and the Romans end up committing genocide against the Jews in 76 AD

Some Jews stay in Jerusalem and are forced to live in secrecy as to who they are

Other Jews flee to the east only to be persecuted by the Sassadins and other Arabic/Persian tribes.

Some Jews flee up north to what is modern Russian and eatern and western Europe.

Going back to the middle east, we see the rise of Islam in the middle east and the mass killing of Jews in the subsequent uprising. Thousands of Jews are slaughtered at the hands of Muhammed and his followers. In 711 the Moors invade Spain and kill the already persecuted Jews (under the Visigoths). Shortly thereafer, the crusades begin and Jerusalem is taken by the Europen powers...in which Jews suffer and are killed whilst in Jerusalem. Saladin takes back Jerusalem...and Jews suffer and are killed.

Going to Europe we have the inquisition and thousands of years of Jews dying and being segregated into ghettos. Suprisingly enough, though millions of Jews die during almost two thousand years of European anti-semitism, it doesn't climax until the Holocaust in which six million Jews die in less than ten years.

Yet you're saying God hasn't judged them yet?!?!?

[Guest shiloh357]

ya know Jake...I used to think you had something constructive to say.

The entire premise of your first post is just ignorant.

You have taken your bias about what you "think" Zionists are and spread it across the board to everyone who says they support Israel on any level

it's just stupidity to imply that Christian Zionists are agents of satan.

Yes, some Zionist groups have signed an agreement that says their humanitarian organization will not manipulate or use coercion to proselytize those whom they are helping.

Do we have any right to insist that all hurricane evacuess from New Orleans must sit through a gospel presentation before the church will help them? What about all the aid we sent to (largely muslim) tsunami victims? Are you saying that Franklin Graham is also an agent of satan for his humanitarian efforts through Samaritan's Purse?

Regarding Bridges for Peace; They have given the gospel to the jews louder than ANYTHING you have done here by presenting Jesus to them in practical ways instead of just a bunch of yapping.

Everyone in Israel knows they are christians. And everyone who recieves the humanitarian aid they offer knows it comes from christians.

What more needs to be said from a HUMANITARIAN organization?

They have opened the door for Israelis to hear what christians have to say by building a bride of peace, respect, and trust between us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Yod. You saved me a bunch of writing. Jake is simply ignorant, and places way too much value on his piddley 6 year "experience" in Messianic Judaism. His rants are baseless. If anyone wants to know what Christian Zionsism is about, just ask Yod, myslef, my good friend Sandy, Nebula, and especially our board owner George who is a Christian Zionist and is touch with many of the ministries that Jake ignorantly slanders.