Josephus, Church Fathers, and Reformers on Daniel's 70 Weeks - A Source List of Quotations

[Keras]

11 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Question: Was the Temple and Jerusalem destroyed/desolated in 70 AD?  The answer is obviously clear.

What is also quite clear, is that a new Temple will be built in Jerusalem. BEFORE Jesus Returns.  Proved by Daniel 9:27, where the leader of the ungodly peoples will stop the offerings and desecrate it by violating the Holy of Holies. 2 Thess 2:4

2 hours ago, anastasis888 said:

There was exactly a 40 period between the end of Christ's earthly ministry and the desolation of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Your assertion of the 70th week fulfilment from 66 to 73 AD cannot be correct, as the final conquest and destruction of Jerusalem was not until 135 AD, by Emperor Hadrian. 

You ignore the fact of the time periods in Revelation all fit the second half of the last seven years of this Christian age. 

[anastasis888]

Daniel's weeks were fulfilled by the end of the Jewish war in AD 73. The Temple had been desolated, the priesthood was no more, and the last of the wars had come to a close by 73.

 

There's nothing in Daniel's 70 weeks left to fulfill after 73. The Bar Kokhba revolt of Hadrian's day is irrelevant to Daniel's weeks.

 

If the Bar Kokhba revolt did fulfill something pertinent in Daniel's 70 weeks, the burden of proving it remains to demonstrate that it fulfilled something that had not already been fulfilled by 73.

 There have been multiple persecutions against ethnic Jews after 73 as well. Do they also all fulfill Daniel's 70 weeks?

If so, Daniel's 490 years has literally been thousands of years long. We get to a point of absurdity if we go past that generation of which Christ spoke. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by anastasis888

[anastasis888]

If we say that Daniel's weeks are yet to be completed, what we're always implying is that there is a possibility that Jesus was not the Messiah, for the Messiah being cut off is integral to the timeline of Daniel's weeks.

 

I'm sure a great many in the world who are opposed to Jesus as Messiah would like to believe that somehow Daniel's weeks have not come to a close, but for us as Christians such is impossible after an honest reading of Matthew 24.

The church for 2000 years has borne witness to Daniel's weeks being fulfilled. 

[Keras]

21 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Question: Was the Temple and Jerusalem destroyed/desolated in 70 AD?  The answer is obviously clear.

What is also quite clear, is that a new Temple will be built in Jerusalem. BEFORE Jesus Returns.  Proved by Daniel 9:27, where the leader of the ungodly peoples will stop the offerings and desecrate it by violating the Holy of Holies. 2 Thess 2:4

12 hours ago, anastasis888 said:

There was exactly a 40 period between the end of Christ's earthly ministry and the desolation of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Your assertion of the 70th week fulfilment from 66 to 73 AD cannot be correct, as the final conquest and destruction of Jerusalem was not until 135 AD, by Emperor Hadrian. 

You ignore the fact of the time periods in Revelation all fit the second half of the last seven years of this Christian age. 

Also, the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24:32-34, plainly says it will be the generation who sees the fig tree budding, that is the restoration of Judah to the holy Land, who will see the end times events. 

[Keras]

1 hour ago, anastasis888 said:

The church for 2000 years has borne witness to Daniel's weeks being fulfilled. 

The prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24:32-34, plainly says it will be the generation who sees the fig tree budding, that is the restoration of Judah to the holy Land, who will see the end times events.

[anastasis888]

56 minutes ago, Keras said:

The prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24:32-34, plainly says it will be the generation who sees the fig tree budding, that is the restoration of Judah to the holy Land, who will see the end times events.

The fig tree budding refers to the time of year that the Roman armies would surround Jerusalem. The fig tree buds in Nisan in the spring at the time of the Passover. We know from Josephus that it was that very Passover of AD 67 that the two forces of Rome had converged together on Jerusalem. From that Passover all the way to the desolation ending in September of AD 70, the gates of Jerusalem would never be reopened. It was a full 3 1/2 year siege. These two armies are the two Roman eagles coming together as Jesus said, "Where the Eagles come together, there the body shall lie".

 

You are correct, though, in saying that it was that generation that saw the fig tree budding. Yet, we must not forget that Jesus cursed the fig in the week of his Passion.

The fig tree was the time marker for Passover when the Jews had rejected and crucified the Messiah and would ultimately be trapped within the walls of Jerusalem between the armies of Titus and Vespasian. The summer of judgement was indeed near as we know the Temple was desolated that August of AD 70.

Edited November 12, 2022 by anastasis888

[anastasis888]

To be clear, I hold that Ezra's Temple was completed that year of 417 BC. Therefore, my count of Daniel's 70 weeks extends 490 years from the edict to rebuild the Temple in Ezra's day to AD 73. 

 

However we choose to begin our count, I see no way possible to extend beyond the autumn of 73. Our count becomes absurd and clearly mistaken after about that time. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by anastasis888

[anastasis888]

The Bar Kokhba revolt ended in AD 136. 490 years back from that would be 355 BC.

Which edict was it to restore and build Jerusalem that was given in 355 BC? Jerusalem and the Temple had already been rebuilt for 62 years by 355 BC.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

55 minutes ago, anastasis888 said:

You are correct, though, in saying that it was that generation that saw the fig tree budding. Yet, we must not forget that Jesus cursed the fig in the week of his Passion.

The fig tree was the time marker for Passover when the Jews had rejected and crucified the Messiah and would ultimately be trapped within the walls of Jerusalem between the armies of Titus and Vespasian. The summer of judgement was indeed near as we know the Temple was desolated that August of AD 70.

Correct and Yeshua also stated the following just before he spoke about Jerusalem's destruction and desolation followed in Mat 24.

Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! See, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" - Mat 23:36-39

The abomination that caused desolation was Judea's rejection and crucifixion of Messiah as stated above.  The covenant that was made was speaking of the New Covenant.  Jesus ministry lasted 3 1/2 years and was cut off in the middle of last week.

 

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Correct and Yeshua also stated the following just before he spoke about Jerusalem's destruction and desolation followed in Mat 24.

Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! See, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" - Mat 23:36-39

The abomination that caused desolation was Judea's rejection and crucifixion of Messiah as stated above.  The covenant that was made was speaking of the New Covenant.  Jesus ministry lasted 3 1/2 years and was cut off in the middle of last week.

 

And if we see this as true, it should cause a re-evaluation of much that is commonly accepted. Pull that thread, and much is unraveled.