Who can baptize and what should or must be said during baptism?

[JohnR7]

15 hours ago, Not of the World said:

I did a search for "baptism" in an online Bible and didn't find anything about who can baptize and what must or should be said during the ceremony.  Thanks in advance.

We have a book of common prayer, and they talk about apostolic succession. The Bible says many are called, but few are chosen. We talk about holy, sanctified, consecrated, dedicated people. Also, people need to set an example. I was divorced around 40 years ago. So even though I have currently been married for 26 years, there are still things I am disqualified for. I tend to think someone does not become an elder until they have been a Christian for 40 years. This has been a standard in Kabbalah that people should not try to study the mysteries of God for the first 40 years. Although the Hasidic do make Kabbalah teachable for everyone. on 

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Some people understand this passage to mean that God does not use lukewarm people to represent Him. That does not mean they are not saved or that they are not a Christian. They just speak for themselves, and they do not speak for God. 

This was NOT something I ever talked about with my son. Yet he died at 40. I think this is because of the Peter Pan syndrome. He did not want to grow up, he did not want to be held accountable. Most people consider 40 to be middle age. If we have any strength, we are given 80 years. Beyond this, we have to add years unto our life. My grandmother, my pastor, and the principal of my high school our ancient history teacher all lived to be 100. They lived their life as an example for others to follow. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by JohnR7

[Dennis1209]

36 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

John D above touches some interesting points. The scriptures he brought are valid but is his understanding correct?

The way to deal with these multiple and different aspects of Baptism is to insert the word "Immersion" instead of "Baptism". Why? The word "Baptism" is an anglicisation of the Greek word "Baptizo". It means; "to immerse like dyeing a garment". The word Baptism is not misleading but it is associated with John Baptist and water. But if you use "immersed", which is the Translation, you are left, not with a concept, but a word that must be explained by the context. So to be immersed in water is one thing, while to be immersed in fire is another, and to be immersed in suffering is another, and to be immersed in the Holy Spirit is yet another. Now you can see the various meanings with discarding one or the other.

To show the importance of "Water Immersion" I will give short comment on a few scriptures. Once these scriptures are appreciated, there can be no "explaining away" water immersion.  

1. Baptism is an emphatic command. That is, God expects it of you whether you've understood it or not (Matt.28:19, Act.2:38)

2. Because of sin and rebellion, God "immersed" the whole earth in water TWICE (Gen1:2, Gen.7:18-19). It is God's way of ending the old and starting new. All the people that God chose, because they are sinners, passed through water (Josh.24:2, 14, 1st Cor.11:1-10)

3. Galatians 3:29 affirms that we are seed of Abraham. All seed of Abraham need it to be part of the Covenant of Promise by circumcision (Gen.15). Circumcision is adequate for inheriting Canaan, but not the Kingdom of Heaven. For this the whole flesh must be symbolically cut off (1st Cor.15:50). So, to inherit the earth (Rom.4:13) God has upgraded circumcision to a circumcision “made without hands” (Col.2:9-12).

4. God gives His Spirit for two purposes - eternal life INWARDLY (John's gospel) and POWER for ministry OUTWARDLY (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). One is a matter of Life and the second - immersion in the Holy Spirit is for SERVICE/MINISTRY. God will not use the disobedient in ministry. Without Baptism you cannot receive the Holy Spirit for POWER (Act.2:38 is emphatic)

5. It authorizes you to be risen LIKE Christ in resurrection (Rom.6:4). WE will all be resurrected and have a certain "celestial glory" (1st Cor.15:34-49). If we refuse water immersion we will not be "like" Christ in glory (1st Jn.3:2)

6. It clears our conscience (1st Pet.3:21). Without a clear conscience we cannot serve God properly. We are continually burdened by our sins

7. Being born again is by FAITH. This entitles you to be resurrected "when Christ comes". When He comes He will set up His Kingdom on earth. The resurrected Christians will SEE the Kingdom (Jn.3:3). But, according to Matthew 7:21-23 only the obedient will ENTER the Kingdom. Because a man who refuses water immersion discards all these points above, he is regarded as a rebel. Water Immersion allows us to "ENTER" the Kingdom of God (Jn.3:5). If you refuse it, you will be like Moses who SAW the Kingdom of Israel but was not allowed to ENTER it.

Water Immersion is a very important act. A lot hangs on it.

But, but, but, are you saying sprinkling and infant baptism, like Brylcreem, a little dab will do ya, is not Biblical? 😊

[Not of the World]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

John D above touches some interesting points. The scriptures he brought are valid but is his understanding correct?

The way to deal with these multiple and different aspects of Baptism is to insert the word "Immersion" instead of "Baptism". Why? The word "Baptism" is an anglicisation of the Greek word "Baptizo". It means; "to immerse like dyeing a garment". The word Baptism is not misleading but it is associated with John Baptist and water. But if you use "immersed", which is the Translation, you are left, not with a concept, but a word that must be explained by the context. So to be immersed in water is one thing, while to be immersed in fire is another, and to be immersed in suffering is another, and to be immersed in the Holy Spirit is yet another. Now you can see the various meanings with discarding one or the other.

To show the importance of "Water Immersion" I will give short comment on a few scriptures. Once these scriptures are appreciated, there can be no "explaining away" water immersion.  

1. Baptism is an emphatic command. That is, God expects it of you whether you've understood it or not (Matt.28:19, Act.2:38)

2. Because of sin and rebellion, God "immersed" the whole earth in water TWICE (Gen1:2, Gen.7:18-19). It is God's way of ending the old and starting new. All the people that God chose, because they are sinners, passed through water (Josh.24:2, 14, 1st Cor.11:1-10)

3. Galatians 3:29 affirms that we are seed of Abraham. All seed of Abraham need it to be part of the Covenant of Promise by circumcision (Gen.15). Circumcision is adequate for inheriting Canaan, but not the Kingdom of Heaven. For this the whole flesh must be symbolically cut off (1st Cor.15:50). So, to inherit the earth (Rom.4:13) God has upgraded circumcision to a circumcision “made without hands” (Col.2:9-12).

4. God gives His Spirit for two purposes - eternal life INWARDLY (John's gospel) and POWER for ministry OUTWARDLY (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). One is a matter of Life and the second - immersion in the Holy Spirit is for SERVICE/MINISTRY. God will not use the disobedient in ministry. Without Baptism you cannot receive the Holy Spirit for POWER (Act.2:38 is emphatic)

5. It authorizes you to be risen LIKE Christ in resurrection (Rom.6:4). WE will all be resurrected and have a certain "celestial glory" (1st Cor.15:34-49). If we refuse water immersion we will not be "like" Christ in glory (1st Jn.3:2)

6. It clears our conscience (1st Pet.3:21). Without a clear conscience we cannot serve God properly. We are continually burdened by our sins

7. Being born again is by FAITH. This entitles you to be resurrected "when Christ comes". When He comes He will set up His Kingdom on earth. The resurrected Christians will SEE the Kingdom (Jn.3:3). But, according to Matthew 7:21-23 only the obedient will ENTER the Kingdom. Because a man who refuses water immersion discards all these points above, he is regarded as a rebel. Water Immersion allows us to "ENTER" the Kingdom of God (Jn.3:5). If you refuse it, you will be like Moses who SAW the Kingdom of Israel but was not allowed to ENTER it.

Water Immersion is a very important act. A lot hangs on it.

An amazing and edifying post.  Thank you!

[AdHoc]

20 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

But, but, but, are you saying sprinkling and infant baptism, like Brylcreem, a little dab will do ya, is not Biblical? 😊

I can't make out the sense with all the smiley's and the slang. I don't want to miss the humor just as much as I don't want to not answer such an important question.

The answer is not complicated. The order given in the Bible is; (i) believe who Jesus is and what He has done, (ii) confess Jesus, (iii) be immersed in the name of Jesus. Infant Baptism is not even alluded to in the Bible.

The types say the same

1. Abraham is called in Mesopotamia THEN he crosses the Euphrates
2. The Lamb in Egypt saves, THEN they go through the Red Sea
3. The New Generation is formed in the Wilderness THEN they go through the Jordan

A case might be formulated based on the fact that Baptism is the new circumcision (Col.2:10-12), and the male Israelite was circumcised on the eighth day of life. But again the order defies this theory. The male child is BORN to Jacob and then circumcised. The Christian must be BORN again and then Immersed.

[Cntrysner]

On 11/15/2022 at 6:31 AM, AdHoc said:

A case might be formulated based on the fact that Baptism is the new circumcision (Col.2:10-12),

Immersion in water (baptism) is clearly not circumcision. Water baptism cleansed the flesh making it acceptable yet circumcision removed the unacceptable flesh. Not the same at all, it should be said that they oppose each other. 
 

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Immersion in water (baptism) is clearly not circumcision. Water baptism cleansed the flesh making it acceptable yet circumcision removed the unacceptable flesh. Not the same at all, it should be said that they oppose each other. 
 

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1st Pet.3:21)

I agree with you though. Baptism is not circumcision. But here is my understanding of Colossians 2:9-12

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead

Verse 9 points to the last mentioned Person - Christ. Christ is not His Name. It is His Office. Jesus is the Name of the Man but Christ is to do with His relationship first to the Triune God on one side and His relationship to the principalities on the other.

Verse 10 has the famous phrase "IN Christ". It's meaning is shown in John 12:24. There was a grain of Wheat. It is planted and through God's design and procedure it brings forth many grains. Nothing was added but many grains came forth. Where did they come from? They were INSIDE the first and single grain. Now, of the grain was blue in color, the many grains would be blue. If the grain was as hard as a diamond, the many grains would be hard as diamonds. And if that first grain had the Triune God dwelling in it, the many grains would have the same Triune God dwelling in them. And if the first grain had preeminence over the principalities, the many grains would have the same seeing as they were IN the first grain.

Another illustration is Israel paying the Levites tithes and the Levites in turn paying their tithe to Melchizedek not directly, because they were not yet born, but by being IN Abraham (Heb.7:5-9).

Verse 11 picks up from verse 10 to amplify what we have IN Christ. Christ was killed. But scripture likens it to circumcision. The circumcision commanded by God in the Covenant made with Abraham was the cutting off of the seat of pleasure for the gaining of the Land Canaan. But what happened to Christ? He is not only to inherit Canaan (for which He was circumcised - Lk.2:21), but He is to inherit the whole EARTH (Rom.4:13). For this the foreskin is not enough. The WHOLE BODY must be cut off. Scripture uses the words; "the circumcision of Christ". Strictly speaking we should also be cut of in death because we are, by virtue of being Christ's and being IN Christ, "seed of Abraham and heirs to the promise" (Gal.3:29).

But if we are cut off like Christ, how then is the Church built (for it needs our bodies - ), and how then is the bride prepared? So Christ goes through this procedure and we are counted as having done the same - been cut off. That is why we are COMPLETE IN HIM. He has done it all for us. But we, like Abraham, must show a "SIGN" that we approve and identify with Him. Romans 4:11 says that circumcision was a "sign". Now we, being seed of Abraham, not via Jacob, but via Jesus, need to show a "sign" of our whole body being cut off.

Verse 12 gives it. "Buried with Him in BAPTISM". The total immersion is a "sign" that we identify with Jesus in the cutting off of the whole body FOR INHERITING THE EARTH. This is explained in 1st Corinthians 15:50-54. Our present bodies CANNOT INHERIT the Kingdom. But verse 12 adds resurrection IN Christ. Where did that come from? It comes from the EIGHTH DAY! The seed of Abraham must be cut on the day that Christ was raised - "the morrow after the Sabbath"!

So Christ does it all for us and God counts us as IN Christ when He went through the whole gory thing. All we have to do is show the "SIGN" that we are one with Christ IN THE COVENANT FOR THE EARTH. That is why John 3:3 says we can only SEE the Kingdom if we are born out of the Spirit. But we are qualified to ENTER if we are born out of the Spirit AND born in Christ's resurrection OUT OF WATER (Jn.3:5)

Circumcision is not Baptism and Baptism is not circumcision. Baptism is the REPLACEMENT of the "sign" that we enter Covenant with God for the earth. ANY CHRISTIAN WHO REFUSES BAPTISM WILL BE RESURRECTED WHEN CHRIST COMES AND SETS UP HIS KINGDOM, BUT WILL NOT PARTAKE OF ITS JOY, PRESTIGE AND BLESSING. He will SEE it, but not ENTER it.

[Cntrysner]

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1st Pet.3:21)

I agree with you though. Baptism is not circumcision. But here is my understanding of Colossians 2:9-12

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead

Verse 9 points to the last mentioned Person - Christ. Christ is not His Name. It is His Office. Jesus is the Name of the Man but Christ is to do with His relationship first to the Triune God on one side and His relationship to the principalities on the other.

Verse 10 has the famous phrase "IN Christ". It's meaning is shown in John 12:24. There was a grain of Wheat. It is planted and through God's design and procedure it brings forth many grains. Nothing was added but many grains came forth. Where did they come from? They were INSIDE the first and single grain. Now, of the grain was blue in color, the many grains would be blue. If the grain was as hard as a diamond, the many grains would be hard as diamonds. And if that first grain had the Triune God dwelling in it, the many grains would have the same Triune God dwelling in them. And if the first grain had preeminence over the principalities, the many grains would have the same seeing as they were IN the first grain.

Another illustration is Israel paying the Levites tithes and the Levites in turn paying their tithe to Melchizedek not directly, because they were not yet born, but by being IN Abraham (Heb.7:5-9).

Verse 11 picks up from verse 10 to amplify what we have IN Christ. Christ was killed. But scripture likens it to circumcision. The circumcision commanded by God in the Covenant made with Abraham was the cutting off of the seat of pleasure for the gaining of the Land Canaan. But what happened to Christ? He is not only to inherit Canaan (for which He was circumcised - Lk.2:21), but He is to inherit the whole EARTH (Rom.4:13). For this the foreskin is not enough. The WHOLE BODY must be cut off. Scripture uses the words; "the circumcision of Christ". Strictly speaking we should also be cut of in death because we are, by virtue of being Christ's and being IN Christ, "seed of Abraham and heirs to the promise" (Gal.3:29).

But if we are cut off like Christ, how then is the Church built (for it needs our bodies - ), and how then is the bride prepared? So Christ goes through this procedure and we are counted as having done the same - been cut off. That is why we are COMPLETE IN HIM. He has done it all for us. But we, like Abraham, must show a "SIGN" that we approve and identify with Him. Romans 4:11 says that circumcision was a "sign". Now we, being seed of Abraham, not via Jacob, but via Jesus, need to show a "sign" of our whole body being cut off.

Verse 12 gives it. "Buried with Him in BAPTISM". The total immersion is a "sign" that we identify with Jesus in the cutting off of the whole body FOR INHERITING THE EARTH. This is explained in 1st Corinthians 15:50-54. Our present bodies CANNOT INHERIT the Kingdom. But verse 12 adds resurrection IN Christ. Where did that come from? It comes from the EIGHTH DAY! The seed of Abraham must be cut on the day that Christ was raised - "the morrow after the Sabbath"!

So Christ does it all for us and God counts us as IN Christ when He went through the whole gory thing. All we have to do is show the "SIGN" that we are one with Christ IN THE COVENANT FOR THE EARTH. That is why John 3:3 says we can only SEE the Kingdom if we are born out of the Spirit. But we are qualified to ENTER if we are born out of the Spirit AND born in Christ's resurrection OUT OF WATER (Jn.3:5)

Circumcision is not Baptism and Baptism is not circumcision. Baptism is the REPLACEMENT of the "sign" that we enter Covenant with God for the earth. ANY CHRISTIAN WHO REFUSES BAPTISM WILL BE RESURRECTED WHEN CHRIST COMES AND SETS UP HIS KINGDOM, BUT WILL NOT PARTAKE OF ITS JOY, PRESTIGE AND BLESSING. He will SEE it, but not ENTER it.

For clarification, please indicate if it is water or Spirit when you refer to baptism.

It seems your understanding of scripture is diluted with water. There are operations of God and operations of men with their respective witnesses.

John the Baptist baptized with water for a witness (visible sign) to Israel and God baptizes with the Spirit for a witness to Christ’s body (invisible sign) that superseded John’s witness. We can see this in scripture as water remission (washing) and blood remission (drinking). The type was performed on their flesh by man (temporal) and the antitype is performed in you by the Spirit (eternal).

From faith to faith requires progression by revelation of Christ not by works of righteousness. Do not make faith void with evidence of things seen (signs). Would you agree that rituals are not evidence of things not seen?

Some have to be blinded before they can see. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Cntrysner

[AdHoc]

18 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

For clarification, please indicate if it is water or Spirit when you refer to baptism.

It seems your understanding of scripture is diluted with water. There are operations of God and operations of men with their respective witnesses.

John the Baptist baptized with water for a witness (visible sign) to Israel and God baptizes with the Spirit for a witness to Christ’s body (invisible sign) that superseded John’s witness. We can see this in scripture as water remission (washing) and blood remission (drinking). The type was performed on their flesh by man (temporal) and the antitype is performed in you by the Spirit (eternal).

From faith to faith requires progression by revelation of Christ not by works of righteousness. Do not make faith void with evidence of things seen (signs). Would you agree that rituals are not evidence of things not seen?

Some have to be blinded before they can see. 

In my first posting on page 1 I proposed a way to avoid the confusion you allude to.

On 11/14/2022 at 2:55 PM, AdHoc said:

The way to deal with these multiple and different aspects of Baptism is to insert the word "Immersion" instead of "Baptism". Why? The word "Baptism" is an anglicisation of the Greek word "Baptizo". It means; "to immerse like dyeing a garment". The word Baptism is not misleading but it is associated with John Baptist and water. But if you use "immersed", which is the Translation, you are left, not with a concept, but a word that must be explained by the context. So to be immersed in water is one thing, while to be immersed in fire is another, and to be immersed in suffering is another, and to be immersed in the Holy Spirit is yet another. Now you can see the various meanings with discarding one or the other.

My postings hold a number of points, all of which would cause difficulties if water was not meant. Of these you made no comment. I take it your main objection is the possibility that somebody would mistake fire for water, or sufferings for the Holy Spirit. This is always possible.