The Important People In The Church

[Neighbor]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:29 AM, Starise said:

I believe God has been working on me as I have always had a problem when looking at human interaction in terms of supposed status with relation to value.

You might rightly say I have a problem with authority when you read this, but I don't really think it's a problem with authority, it's a problem with how authority and status are viewed within a church and what seems to be some of the benefits that go along with it and the disadvantages that seem to follow those who are not as high in the chain.

Hi, 

There is an "army" of individuals in this unsaved world none of whom would take an order  from anyone about anything if they could do otherwise.  They are anarchists. Their mantra is chaos at any cost.

That said the question of order and how it works is a valid one to ask about to think upon and to pray over, and also to answer. Order is absolutely a privilege and a duty within the gospel of our lord it is stressed by his inspired of God apostles. Some quoting Yeshua directly.

To resent authority is to defy God directly, for He is authority. He has appointed all that have authority too.   To have discord  and resentment of authority is to have a problem with God. That's a tough one, to let go of resistance to authority is hard, well very difficult, but it is also  Biblical instruction.

Anyone can find themselves in carp mode, it is not only a progressively habitual disease of the mind and heart it is also catchy. It spreads and destroys many a person and institution .  

[Starise]

1 minute ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, 

There is an "army" of individuals in this unsaved world none of whom would take an order  from anyone about anything if they could do otherwise.  They are anarchists. Their mantra is chaos at any cost.

That said the question of order and how it works is a valid one to ask about to think upon and to pray over, and also to answer. Order is absolutely a privilege and a duty within the gospel of our lord it is stressed by his inspired of God apostles. Some quoting Yeshua directly.

To resent authority is to defy God directly, for He is authority. He has appointed all that have authority too.   To have discord  and resentment of authority is to have a problem with God. That's a tough one, to let go of resistance to authority is hard, well very difficult, but it is also  Biblical instruction.

Anyone can find themselves in carp mode, it is not only a progressively habitual disease of the mind and heart it is also catchy. It spreads and destroys many a person and institution .  

And I would fully agree with that, however in the US I have a choice as to who I decide to subject myself to at the church level, and if I am lacking, I am free to go anywhere else or be under someone else.

Let's not equate church politics with national politics. Yes there are some similarities, but I may go to a different church every week if I want to. 

I will submit to whoever is over me. Got it?

[Neighbor]

The body of my Lord is not gifted equally:

1 Corinthians 12

English Standard Version

Spiritual Gifts

..." Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.  You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led.  Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.

 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;  and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;  and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.  To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.  For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.  All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

One Body with Many Members

 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.  For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

 For the body does not consist of one member but of many.  If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.  If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell?  But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose.  If all were a single member, where would the body be?  As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”  On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,  and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty,  which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.  If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?  But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

And I will show you a still more excellent way."  -Credit biblegateway

[Neighbor]

3 minutes ago, Starise said:

I will submit to whoever is over me. Got it?

That is a good thing, however your messages so far seemed to share that you do so grudgingly.  To read that is not the case is interesting and I think  good.

[Starise]

1 minute ago, Neighbor said:

That is a good thing, however your messages so far seemed to share that you do so grudgingly.  To read that is not the case is interesting and I think  good.

Jesus told us to submit to authority and even to submit to the crooked leaders of the time with the caveat that the people did what they taught and not what they did.

It would be very tough to sit under a leader or leaders who were so rule specific, but who's lives in no way reflected any genuiness to their belief.

I AM trying to deal with some bitterness over this, and I admit it's some of me, but there is a real reason that has led to me feeling this way. A legitimate reason. I just didn't process it the right way. I acknowledged that. Mismanagement, favoritism and mistreatement can be in a church, but bitterness is our problem. Wouldn't it make sense to go somewhere that we don't have these issues? Why open ourselves up to it over and over again?

Leaving an assembly without processing where we are can lead to the same problems over and over again if the problem is US.

So I didn't leave I just took a step back and am processing everything. I will NOT be serving there in that capacity now of my own choosing. I will admit I seen a messianic church near me has Saturday services and that interested me, but I just don't think I have processed it all yet here. I am focusing outside of church to be used of God as well...I think this is truly where the real action is. Maybe the Lord used this to show me that.

[Neighbor]

5 hours ago, Starise said:

So I didn't leave I just took a step back and am processing everything. I will NOT be serving there in that capacity now of my own choosing. I will admit I seen a messianic church near me has Saturday services and that interested me, but I just don't think I have processed it all yet here. I am focusing outside of church to be used of God as well...I think this is truly where the real action is. Maybe the Lord used this to show me that.

Hi, You start some really interesting threads. Thanks, I do have to get ready  for church up in the mountains now. A real treat for me btw; and where there is not even formal "membership".

But to throw in a line before I go. I found I was made to change my own resentments and ways in general when God had me take employment at a church body- given a title and made responsible for facilities planning and events, anything physical about the church and school a 10 acre facility.  Where suddenly I also found I was  really working for 11 elders, 12 deacons, 10 deaconesses, a school administrator, and over 500 individuals, many of whom thought they knew a better "way".  Plus I found almost immediately- hey where did the janitorial staff go?

And so I had to personally grab the toilet plunger and learn a whole lot of humility foreign to me. I did it for 14 years, a grand experience for me personally. 

I learned to think of it all as "pushing on a rope". Sometimes if one pushes on the rope long enough and especially if one  works out how to give all credit to someone else much can be accomplished, within even the local bodies of Christ Jesus.

Got to go-  to drive 25 miles through the mountains for church,  wow what a treat to be up here today! But I do want to share that I am finding your subjects to be of value to me personally so thanks.

[Starise]

3 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, You start some really interesting threads. Thanks, I do have o get ready  for church up in the mountains now. I recall treat for me btw. and where there is not even formal "membership".

But to throw in a line before I go. I found I was made to change my own resentments and ways in general when God had me take employment at a church body- given a title and made responsible for facilities planning and events, anything physical about the church and school a 10 acre facility.  Where suddenly I also found I was  really working for 11 elders, 12 deacons, 10 deaconesses, a school administrator, and over 500 individuals, many of whom thought they knew a better "way".  Plus I found almost immediately- hey where did the janitorial staff go?

And so I had to personally grab the toilet plunger and learn a whole lot of humility foreign to me. I did it for 14 years, a grand experience for me personally. 

I learned to think of it all as "pushing on a rope". Sometimes if one pushes on the rope long enough and especially if one  works out how to give all credit to someone else much can be accomplished, within even the local bodies of Christ Jesus.

Got to go-  to drive 25 miles through the mountains for church,  wow what a treat to be up here today! But I do want to share that I am finding your subjects to be of value to me personally so thanks.

Same here. Headed out soon to sunday school. 

TBC.