The Efficacy of Water Baptism

[Cntrysner]

On 5/19/2024 at 10:39 AM, Hawkins said:

This is closely tied to what the Final Judgment lawfully/legally is, and what the Covenant lawfully/legally is.

Hello @Hawkins,

By “this” I assume you mean the efficacy of water baptism and you are trying to make a distinction between being judged under God’s law or judged under God’s covenant but both are God’s law. If  Abraham had not obeyed God in circumcision covenant he would have been cut off.

On 5/19/2024 at 10:39 AM, Hawkins said:

The Judgment of Law is applicable to both angels and humans alike. However for the reason that the much more intelligent fallen angels (as led by Satan) can have a vital effect on humans that less intelligent humans are (without their owe awareness) kept captive. No one (human) is righteous, not even one in front of the Judgment of Law. To humans, Jesus is the only way.

Jesus was fully human in every aspect and stands in our behalf  as righteous under God’s law. We fulfill the law in every aspect by being in Christ (Rom 8:1-5). 

On 5/19/2024 at 10:39 AM, Hawkins said:

That being said. The nature of the Judgment of Law is that, it's an objective judgment on one's past and one's behavior. It's an assessment of one's obedience. All humans without exception would fail such an assessments. Obedience is one of the two determining factors whether an entity with freewill can live with a completely sin-incompatible God in eternity. For that matter, Law is more like a promise from God that if one can pass the Judgment of Law, God would bear with him in eternity no matter what (like a Shepherd to His sheep).

God can not bear sin in His presence it has to be removed (circumcised), fallen man’s problem is obeying law will not remove sin’s penalty which is separation from God and death. It is by the obedience of One (Rom 5:19) that we are freed from the law (Rom 10:4).

On 5/19/2024 at 10:39 AM, Hawkins said:

Law, which as we speak is still perceivable by the angels however is no longer demonstratable to humans living in the corrupt world - our planet Earth. God has to demonstrate the nature of Law through the Jewish covenants (more on the Mosaic Covenant). Mosaic Covenant has a strict definition that only a circumcised Jew is lawfully/legally a Jew. You are not lawfully a Jew without the circumcision.

The curse of law with God’s covenants were nothing more than a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ and circumcision like baptism can do nothing concerning a righteous relationship with God . If one obeys circumcision or baptism it makes them a debtor to the whole law and Christ has become of no effect to you (Gal 5:2-4).

Edited May 24, 2024 by Cntrysner

[Cntrysner]

On 5/19/2024 at 10:39 AM, Hawkins said:

Covenant, which is only applicable to humans is granted through the blood of Jesus Christ. Any covenant (including the Covenant of Rainbow through Noah) cannot be lawfully signed off if without God's self-sacrifice through Jesus Christ at a certain point of humanity. Unlike Law, Covenant however is not an objective judgment. It's rather a subjective judgment by a God who is capable and just. Since it is a subjective judgment instead of an objective judgment, it's not limited to judging one's past and one's behavior. God is capable of judging one's heart/mind, God is capable of even judgment one's future (we don't know to which extent this would apply though).

The shed blood of Christ removed the law for all those that believe in Him and His righteousness obedience to the law with covenants. Salvation is not about what you think or feel, it’s about God’s grace and the faith of Christ (Eph 2:8-9). 

On 5/19/2024 at 10:39 AM, Hawkins said:

That's why unlike circumcision as demanded by a Jewish covenant in the sense of Law, baptism is subject to the subjective judgment of Jesus Christ. In terms of the New Covenant, baptism defines a Christian (the same token as how circumcision defines a Jew). However when Jesus sees fit, you can exempt from this if you have a good reason (as Jesus sees, not you) not to be baptized. An example is the thief besides Jesus on the cross. The thief won't have a chance to be baptized, he however is endorsed by Jesus as a lawfully and legally valid Christians. The judgment is subjectively belongs to God the Son in this case.

Covenants were part of God’s law as circumcision and water immersion to enter the promised kingdom as priests (Exo 19:6), if either were not obeyed they (the nation of Israel) would have been cut off (Gen 17:14) and become not God’s people.  

On 5/19/2024 at 10:39 AM, Hawkins said:

You need to be baptized to be lawfully reckoned as a Christian, unless Jesus sees that you have a good reason not to be so. Or to simply put, when Jesus says that you are dead then you are dead, when He says that you are alive then you are alive. That's what a subjective Judgment could mean. By Law, when you said "Oh Lord" in your mouth, you may be saved as Law cannot judge heart to tell whether it is a lie. However Jesus Christ can tell who you are even when you fulfilled the Law by saying "Oh Lord" with your mouth. That lies the difference!

The difference is between law and grace, if you want to be a debtor to the law you must keep all the laws and not miss by one jot or tittle.

Mat 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.