christmas is evil

[JohnD]

12 minutes ago, Starise said:

I was looking into this. Your husband must have been very gifted in computers and controls because to do that right takes a lot of planning and hardware all set up the right way.

There is a house not far from here  people go to see by the hundreds. Lots of lights very well done, all programmed to tracks and it's REALLY cool.

found this one online (from 2015) pretty cool...

link to videos on Worthy Christian Forums

[Roymond]

17 hours ago, JohnD said:

 

There is no evidence Jesus was born on December 25th. In fact, the shepherds being in the fields at night with their flocks would be prohibitive in December from the cold and rain. And  John 1:14 in the Greek states that the Word [tabernacled] among us... strongly suggesting he was born during the feast of Tabernacles.

 

I've already explained the source of the date for Christmas, so I'll just note that even many in the fourth-century church when it began to be celebrated knew that wasn't the actual date -- see my other posts for more details.

17 hours ago, JohnD said:

Roman Catholicism ... changed a perverted pagan feast around winter solstice called Saturnalia to the Mass of Christ (commemorating his birth). And as it typical with Roman Catholic tradition making / religion building they incorporated several aspects of the very paganism hey were "doing away with" like the yule log (Nimrod origin) and the cutting and dressing of trees (Druid tree worship) and mistletoe myth (nod to the sexual misconduct that ordinarily took place during Saturnalia).

Wow, is this mixed up!

First, they didn't choose the date because of Saturnalia; that idea actually goes back to someone who was trying to discredit Christianity, so it's a bit strange for Christians to buy into it.  The date landed on December 25 because of a strong tradition that the Messiah had to be conceived on March 25 -- add nine months and you end up in December.

The yule log goes back to the Druids, no farther.  The "Nimrod" claim is an invention of Louis Farrakhan; every encyclopedia and scholarly source I can find traces it to the Druids and/or Germany in the Roman period.  It also wasn't originally a log, it was an entire tree!

In fact the Christmas tree was introduced (before it was called a Christmas tree) to counter the Druids!  Their important trees were oak and ash (and it's not accurate that they worshipped them; the matter is both more complex and a bit fuzzy).  The fir tree grew in a triangular shape, which was used to show the Trinity, it remained green all year and so represented enduring life (ass opposed to oak trees that lose their leaves), and it had a sweet fragrancelike incense and so reminded people to pray at all times.

17 hours ago, JohnD said:

At first blush it would seem to be a good thing replacing the orgy ridden feast with a Christian holiday to celebrate Jesus' birth...

But then, what is good about attaching untruth to Truth personified. Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6). 

Jesus did say in the midst of Passover Seder observance to remember his death till he returns. He said nothing about celebrating his birth.

What if Jesus is insulted by being misrepresented in this way?

How would Jesus be insulted by us following the apostolic admonition to "take all things captive" to Christ?  Letting the pagans have any holiday at all is honoring them!  Failure to replace them, as the apostle wrote, with the truth of Christ, is to let people remain ignorant!

An why would we NOT celebrate His birth?!  Though what we ought to celebrate is His conception, because at that moment the world changed:  God came down and became a single human cell, the divine fullness resting inside a small bit of protoplasm within a human mother.  In becoming flesh, God the Son laid claim to all of material Creation, its king coming to it in person.

Paul uses the term "firstborn" to refer to Jesus, most significantly in the phrase "firstborn of all creation".  Paul was educated in Greek philosophy, so he knew when he used that word that it meant "Way-maker" or "Opener of the way", and what the Way-maker did was to shape the "entrance" into something.  Paul says Jesus was the Waymaker into all creation, which means that everything that has been or will be created was shaped by Christ and thus points to Christ.  So all those material things and all the days of the year were shape by Christ and reflect Who He is!  Thus none of those things, whether mornings or mountains, sunsets or sand, hours or oceans, belong to anyone but Him -- so why would we surrender any of it to any pagan so-called gods?  But even more, by taking on a single human cell with its protoplasm and DNA, He laid claim to it all, building His own body using all the material things humans need, indeed shedding skin cells and breathing in and out so atoms and molecules that were part of the Word made flesh spread everywhere He went, to the point that now when we breathe in we take in molecules that were once part of His human body, indeed every living thing has molecules that were once very personally part of our Incarnate Lord.  All of Creation is His twice over, and every bit of it is supposed to tell about Him.

17 hours ago, JohnD said:

Should we just let people the world over (Christians and non Christians) just blissfully, ignorantly go about celebrating eggnog season and gift getting and obligatory card and gift giving and somewhere in there say or sing

 

Odd -- somehow that got chopped off.

No, we shouldn't let people go "blissfully, ignorantly":  we should tell them that the trees and the mistletoe and the yule log and the giving of gifts and everything else is HIS, and tell them why; we should not let any pagan so-called gods have any of it!  We should say that those are false, that they are thieves come to steal and liars come to mislead, and no matter what may have been claimed by any of those so-called gods, it all belongs to Jesus because He shaped it and came down to claim it.

[Roymond]

11 hours ago, Starise said:

I hope you all have a wonderful Christmas . 

I was just commenting to my wife that there is all of this build up and the next day it's all over. All of those presents were opened last night since the kids were over.

Today will be getting closer back to normal for us.

 

We do Christmas backwards:  we start the "Christmas season" as soon as the Thanksgiving pies are gone, and stop suddenly even before the day itself is over, often with a sense of relief!  Long ago the celebration started on Christmas and lasted twelve days, and finished off with honoring the coming of the Magi.

I think it was my sister when we were kids who one year put the three 'Wise Men' over on the other side of the room from the Nativity scene and moved them a little closer every day, because "They weren't there yet!" even on Christmas -- and she refused to let us take down the tree until January 6 when the Wise Men finally arrived at the Nativity scene.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Roymond
spelling and added a phrase

[Roymond]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

Celebrating a winter feast of kindness and peace and warmth is just fine and dandy.

Lying about Jesus is what I have a big problem with.

Happy Holidays!

The worst lying about Jesus comes from allowing any kind of honor to pagan so-called 'gods' by surrendering to them what they falsely laid claim to.

The Earth is His, for He made it, and that includes trees whom the Psalmist tell us praise Him -- it never says let them serve pagan 'gods'.

[Roymond]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Happy Incarnation Day!  "Great is the mystery of godliness - God was manifested in the flesh!"  (1 Tim 3:16) 

Actually Incarnation Day was nine months ago.

Today is "come out into the cold, cruel world, little Babe" Day.

[Marathoner]

Alas, some don't understand that "Jesus" is the English transliteration of "Iēsous" in Ancient Greek (the language of the New Testament). 

Iēsous, in turn, is an Ancient Greek transliteration of the Hebrew "Yeshua." There are different conventions regarding the spelling of Yeshua but that aside, the whole "earth pig" shindig is the silliest thing I have heard in a long time. 

[Roymond]

1 hour ago, other one said:

I hear there was 4 and they would not admit the fourth because the present he brought was a fruit cake.

And he was wearing the first horrid Christmas sweater.

(Couldn't find one that would stick here.)

Edited December 25, 2022 by Roymond
images wouldn't work

[Roymond]

1 hour ago, other one said:

It's actually closer that he was conceived the second week in December

Yeah, I used to know the 'reasoning' involved in determining that the first day of Creation was March 25, but it's been too long since I last really thought about it.  I just remember thinking, "This is really weird, but it made sense to them".

[Roymond]

This Christmas is evil for me because every time I tried to order my new pup's Christmas gift (a waterproof, insulated coat so we can go for walks in cruddy weather) I would click to put it in my online cart but by the time I got to the payment page a warning told me it was out of stock.  Five times they emailed me saying, "Your item is in stock!" but I could never actually finish my order before it was out again.

So instead I took him to the grocery store down the street and let him say "HI!" to everyone for about an hour and raise smiles to everyone.

[The_Patriot21]

What I find funny here, is for awhile the anti Christmas people always started posts saying Christmas was evil and it always turned into a debate.

Then they stopped, so the people who liked Christmas, would start "Christmas is evil" posts as a joke, to make fun of those who hate Christmas, but of course, even though these posts were meant as a joke, the anti Christmas people would jump in and it would turn into a long debate over the evilness of Christmas.

So apparently, worthy's longest standing tradition, is to get on our phones and argue with each other about whether Christmas is evil or not.

I mean, I can think of a lot more important things, but I guess I can think of a lot worse things to. So Merry Christmas all, hope it was a good one!