This "Christian socialism" thing is absolutely heretical

[The_Patriot21]

30 minutes ago, Roymond said:

A wonderful preacher I got to meet long ago once preached on "How Jesus broke the Law".  His imagery was that of a building with a ceiling that contained all the things the Law said to accomplish -- and his point was that Jesus broke the ceiling by being better than the Law and rising above it.

Well that preacher was right and wrong lol 

Jesus never broke the law. He did however rise above it, which is what I was trying to get at with sib. He went straight for the intent of the law. 

The law is still important, but it serves a slightly different purpose. It is, as Paul states, the law defines what sin is. Which is important, because without sin there no need for a saviour. 

We are no longer bound by the law, we are under grace, while before we were bound by the law. That is the difference between how the law was applied in the old covenant, verses new covenant-grace vs bondage.

 

 

[AnOrangeCat]

4 hours ago, Slibhin said:

G-d is not a libertarian, a conservative, or a liberal. He does not belong to or endorse political parties and does not care about anyone's ideology. He doesn't care about your property or your money in so far as what he requires of you as his follower. 

Pretty much my sentiment as well. Any socioeconomic system can work as long as it's carried out according to the principles God has laid out for us rather than being used as a means to line the pockets of the people at the top. But I think in America there's a tendency to embrace capitalism and be critical of anything that even faintly resembles communism/socialism because of the Cold War. It's unfortunate when people conflate their politics and economics with the Bible.

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, Roymond said:

A wonderful preacher I got to meet long ago once preached on "How Jesus broke the Law".  His imagery was that of a building with a ceiling that contained all the things the Law said to accomplish -- and his point was that Jesus broke the ceiling by being better than the Law and rising above it.

Two questions:

·         Are the “Ten Commandments” laws, or just suggestions and good ideas?

·         Have they been done away with?

[The Barbarian]

There is rich irony in the fact that the only societies in which pure socialism worked, even for a few decades, were overtly Christian societies.   The Amana Colonies, for example, were so socialistic that the homes didn't even have kitchens; they all ate in communal dining halls.   

But after less than 100 years, they chose to end it, formed a corporation, and issued everyone stock, becoming capitalists.

 

[Roymond]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:12 PM, The_Patriot21 said:

Well that preacher was right and wrong lol 

Jesus never broke the law. He did however rise above it, which is what I was trying to get at with sib. He went straight for the intent of the law. 

The law is still important, but it serves a slightly different purpose. It is, as Paul states, the law defines what sin is. Which is important, because without sin there no need for a saviour. 

We are no longer bound by the law, we are under grace, while before we were bound by the law. That is the difference between how the law was applied in the old covenant, verses new covenant-grace vs bondage.

 

 

Perhaps he would have been more accurate to say that Jesus showed that the Law itself is broken because it can't make anyone righteous -- but that wouldn't have made a catchy sermon title!

[Roymond]

On 1/7/2023 at 6:49 PM, Slibhin said:

G-d is not a libertarian, a conservative, or a liberal. He does not belong to or endorse political parties and does not care about anyone's ideology. He doesn't care about your property or your money in so far as what he requires of you as his follower. 

Everything we have is not really ours, it's his. When you don't do with it what he commands you are stealing from G-d. Period.

I was once subjected to a 'lecture' purporting to show that Jesus was a communist (reminiscent of one part of Fiddler on the Roof).  As a rebuttal a guy stood up and proceeded to expound how scriptures shows that Jesus is a capitalist.  I had the urge to stand up and argue that Jesus is plainly a libertarian.

He gives evidence of being each of those, plus conservative and liberal.  One might argue that of course He does, since any monarch acting for the welfare of his subjects will sometimes appear one, sometimes another, and yet is ultimately none of them.

[Roymond]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:51 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Two questions:

·         Are the “Ten Commandments” laws, or just suggestions and good ideas?

·         Have they been done away with?

Actually in the Hebrew they read as declarations.  Rabbis shake their heads at Christian lists of the Ten Words because we miss the first and most important Word:  "I am YHWH your God".  By not recognizing that as the first Word, we fail to see that the Ten are somewhat two things at once:  they are pointers to show us the way when our "dark side" tries to steer us, and they are announcements of what kind of people God plans on making us.

I recall a rabbi I met at Washington University in St. Louis saying that the two meanings tell us that there must be eternal life, since nothing sort of eternity would suffice to make us into that kind of people!

"Done away with"?  No, they stand as a monument of the tutor who brought us to Christ.  They are no longer the ethical standard; our ethical standard is the Cross.  But they can be used as a rude measure of how we're doing -- though on the other hand, I don't recall eve reading them and thinking, "I've got to change this about myself"; that's always been the prompting of the Spirit Who catches me in the middle of something and pretty much asks if what I'm doing is worthy of the Cross and the Crucified One.

[Roymond]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:30 AM, Slibhin said:

What a meaningless distinction. Are you serious or are you trolling?

By the same logic you must be okay with welfare as long as it's recipients have to walk to the bank to cash the cheque, which is the same amount of work required to bend over and pick up food.

Welfare is what happens when a community of people recognize the obligation as humans in a community to care for the less fortunate.

[Roymond]

4 hours ago, Rick-Parker said:

That's just stupid.

I wouldn't say stupid, I'd just point out that a food bank is a better comparison to gleaning.

[The_Patriot21]

2 hours ago, Roymond said:

Perhaps he would have been more accurate to say that Jesus showed that the Law itself is broken because it can't make anyone righteous -- but that wouldn't have made a catchy sermon title!

Indeed lol.

Though, in reality the law isn't broken... the law is perfect. It is us who are broken and unable to achieve perfection, hence why we need grace.