Is the Church Christ?

[Marilyn C]

41 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

1. No. Before initial salvation, I am made righteous by the imputation of one righteous act. After initial salvation, there is accountability for deeds done in this body (2 Cor 5:10), which are done as a result of source - if the source of my actions are Him, then those are righteous acts.  Those righteous deeds make up the garment of the bride in Rev 19:7.

2. Not sure how Jude 24 applies. But how do we sparse 2 Cor 11:2 as not being a bride? "For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ."

Glad you believe that Christ is our righteousness.

`But of Him you are in Christ Jesus who became for us wisdom from God - and righteousness and sanctification and redemption...` (1 Cor. 1: 30)

Our deeds are the fruit of believing in Christ and NOT the garment.

`the WIFE HAS MADE HERSELF READY.` (Rev. 19: 7)

No where does it say that the Body is the wife.

No where does it say that we are to make ourselves ready, righteous.

 

Jude 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and TO PRESENT YOU FAULTLESS before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy.` 

The Apostle Paul DOES NOT present us to the Lord, the Lord presents us to Himself.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hi Marilyn, I am not stepping on your toes but we need to know what you thing about VA post...

He responded to your post about she ....her...we like to know if you agreed.

That`s fine I missed it. Thank you.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I see the two translations of "she" and "her" in Ephesians can be "it" or a more neutral pronoun.

 

The Apostle Paul has been laying out the doctrine, the teaching of the Body of Christ, the NEW MAN, which will be brought to a PERFECT MAN. Thus, the reference to the Body in Eph. 5: 25 ff refers back to that - the New Man, the BODY, IT. 

[1to3]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Then after that unfolding of doctrine, Paul exhorts his disciples in their behaviour.

`walk in love....nor foolish talking....let no one deceive you....walk circumspectly...not unwise....speaking to one another....giving thanks...

40 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

No where does it say that the Body is the wife.

Hello Marylin,

I see us SAINTS from scripture as the bride of Christ.

I see Israel as ALL who have come to Christ Jesus  Jew and Greek=Gentiles.

Jesus gave a very important  Parable /story of the bride and keeping their oil lamps full. Matthew 25:1-13 NKJV

“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meetthe bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Meaning keeping the -oil lamps-  the Holy Spirit active in your life in your temple.

Those are the TRUE virgins of Christ Jesus , they kept their oil lamps full and were ready to meet their groom=Christ Jesus.

These TRUE Virgins are the bride of Christ

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by 1to3
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[Your closest friendnt]

37 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The Apostle Paul has been laying out the doctrine, the teaching of the Body of Christ, the NEW MAN, which will be brought to a PERFECT MAN. Thus, the reference to the Body in Eph. 5: 25 ff refers back to that - the New Man, the BODY, IT. 

It seems that Paul is trying to help and loose the believers who have fallen in the hands of Pastors who want to Lord it over them...Asking them for their blind royalty and to side with them in everything they say and do....

Paul is telling them that above all the mini-pops...there is Jesus Christ our Lord who is above all...

Those mini-pops and there is an abundance of them...as they multiply as quickly as the rabbits...

In the revelation first, second and third  chapters we see how they interfered with Jesus ministry....

Just imagine the hold they had on the believers that they refuse to respond to Jesus calling and they showed him as the enemy and they closed the door of their hearts to him...imagine the erroneous teachings that had imposed on them...how they bound them...that even Jesus could not get through to them....to some he did..they bound them with the fear that they can only be saved through the church and their prayers.   

I think this is it what Paul was up against....because some of them they had ban Paul for visiting their churches...and they tried to take control of some of Paul's churches..

Think of the CC they will threaten the people with exocomunicating them...and then who is going to Saved them without the church rituals....they are going to be lost....because they preached no one can be saved without the church..

They do not deny the scriptures about Jesus but they add that without the church no one can be Saved. 

This is it Paul tried to snatched them out of their claws by telling the believes that Jesus is above them and above their judgment.

We see in revelation one Jesus is going after the oppressive leaders....who have oppress the believers in such way that they are afraid to listen to Jesus...they want only them...to follow only them....Catholics....

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, 1to3 said:

Hello Marylin,

I see us SAINTS from scripture as the bride of Christ.

I see Israel as ALL who have come to Christ Jesus  Jew and Greek=Gentiles.

Jesus gave a very important  Parable /story of the bride and keeping their oil lamps full. Matthew 25:1-13 NKJV

“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meetthe bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Meaning keeping the -oil lamps-  the Holy Spirit active in your life in your temple.

Those are the TRUE virgins of Christ Jesus , they kept their oil lamps full and were ready to meet their groom=Christ Jesus.

These TRUE Virgins are the bride of Christ

 

 

The ten virgins they were  not the brides of the bridegroom...he was not to marry ten and he ended up to marry only five.. .

(If that was so people at that time would be allowed to marry more than one woman but with the condition to marry them all at ones...with no chance to marry anyone else later on...which would have been a prohibition..

At that time they married only one wife....and would have been very strange that Jesus would say this story and having the "bridegroom" married ten and all at the same time...

Note is taken that he was not the GROOM of the ten or five virgins....they were not the ten or five brides, no they were the friends of the bride who went to fetch the bridegroom the would be husband of the bride who she was not with them...

The marriages were by arrangement and they were done this way....the bridegroom will be met by the friends of the bride...not the wives them selves...

Check this out without any offence...

If you want to see any parallel to this story...because in the Gospel no one is refused when they believe when they want to be included in Christ Jesus and that can only happened after someone dies...

So it seems that we have ten Jewish women and during their lifetime it happened to have the change from the old Covenant to the new...

It all comes down to when the Covenant change they all found themselves in the old Covenant and without the benefits of the Sinai Covenant....at some time  (the bridegroom is Jesus Christ in the new Covenant)

(Jesus as the Judge of the world including the Jews)

It seems that the five brides they had believe and they died in their belief in Jesus as the Christ...and they at time of their death they were wellcome by the Bridegroom Jesus Christ..

They were waiting for the Christ to come and their hope in his coming was alive in them they had not gone weary..

They other five eventually got weary and they stopped looking forwards to the coming of Christ....their hope for his coming was not alive in them...

And hoping that all was well to abide in the Covenant of Sinai and not having accept to believe...for it was a time that all of them heard the good news of Jesus Christ...and they choose to put their Hopes in the Sonai Covenant...and they died in obedience to the Law of Moses in the time when the New Covenant was preached to them....

And they died with the hope that they will be welcome by the Lord of the Sinai Covenant.....only to find out that it was Jesus Christ the Lord the one had refused..so as they were still in their sins they were refused entry. 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, coheir said:

I could be wrong have been many times always hoping to be corrected PRN.

Husbandman was used as a person who cared for looked out for vineyards and such.

I thought the Lord using Husband was not meant as a man and woman marry but as one who caries for Israel and gives it what ever it needs to survive as the husbandman of a vineyard.

Even Noah was a husband man.

 

Hi coheir,

Sorry I missed your comments. Interesting thought there. God does call Israel His vineyard as well as other names. However, in Isa. 54: 4 & 6, we do read about `widowhood, like a youthful wife...` And in Hosea God says He will betroth Israel to Himself. (Hos. 2: 19 & 20) So, I think the meaning is clear. 

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, 1to3 said:

Hello Marylin,

I see us SAINTS from scripture as the bride of Christ.

I see Israel as ALL who have come to Christ Jesus  Jew and Greek=Gentiles.

Jesus gave a very important  Parable /story of the bride and keeping their oil lamps full. Matthew 25:1-13 NKJV

“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meetthe bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Meaning keeping the -oil lamps-  the Holy Spirit active in your life in your temple.

Those are the TRUE virgins of Christ Jesus , they kept their oil lamps full and were ready to meet their groom=Christ Jesus.

These TRUE Virgins are the bride of Christ

 

 

Hi 1to3,

God`s word tells us that Jesus was a `servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, TO CONFIRM THE PROMISES made to the Fathers. ` (Rom. 15: 8)

God`s word also tells us that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed unto the Lord gave it to the Apostle Paul.

Thus, the parables the Lord spoke were to Israel and were to CONFIRM THE PROMISES made to the fathers. 

The parable of the 10 virgins was about Israel being ready for the Lord, the bridegroom when He comes. 10 has to do with the law and 5 for God`s grace. All virgins, Israel, are under the law, but God will give grace to them. However, only some prepare themselves by God`s Holy Spirit. 

Israel is also called `the virgin daughter of Zion.` (Isa. 37: 22)

`But who can endure the day of His coming?.....He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver...He will purify the sons of Levi.....that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteouness.....

Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another and the Lord listened and heard them....They shall be mine, says the Lord of Hosts.` (Micah 3: 2 & 3,  16 & 17)

`And it shall come to pass in all the land, says the Lord, that two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it; I will bring the one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined.... ` (Zech. 13: 8 & 9)

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced.` (Zech. 12: 10)

 

[Your closest friendnt]

56 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi 1to3,

God`s word tells us that Jesus was a `servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, TO CONFIRM THE PROMISES made to the Fathers. ` (Rom. 15: 8)

God`s word also tells us that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed unto the Lord gave it to the Apostle Paul.

Thus, the parables the Lord spoke were to Israel and were to CONFIRM THE PROMISES made to the fathers. 

The parable of the 10 virgins was about Israel being ready for the Lord, the bridegroom when He comes. 10 has to do with the law and 5 for God`s grace. All virgins, Israel, are under the law, but God will give grace to them. However, only some prepare themselves by God`s Holy Spirit. 

Israel is also called `the virgin daughter of Zion.` (Isa. 37: 22)

`But who can endure the day of His coming?.....He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver...He will purify the sons of Levi.....that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteouness.....

Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another and the Lord listened and heard them....They shall be mine, says the Lord of Hosts.` (Micah 3: 2 & 3,  16 & 17)

`And it shall come to pass in all the land, says the Lord, that two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it; I will bring the one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined.... ` (Zech. 13: 8 & 9)

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced.` (Zech. 12: 10)

 

You are the best. 

Jesus was speaking to those who were under the Law...and he let them know that not all who looked towards the coming of the Messiah will believe in him or will follow him when he comes....speaking of the coming Kingdom of God...

And he touched another truth that after the New Covenant has come the worship in the Temple will continue .... not everyone will believe. Jesus was telling the people who were waiting for the Christ that when he comes they will be divided...that the coming of Christ will caused a division between those who would believe in him and those who would not...

This is one of the SIGNS that Jesus is indeed the Christ...because the division will last for ever.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

@Marilyn C

Hi Marilyn, in the book of revelation we read about the Royal Priesthood..and we also read that they were dress in white linen...

This detailed let us know that not all believers are part of the Royal Priesthood...

In the same way that not all Levites were Priests..

All believers are Saved and can say they believe but not all believers can sing out loud that they have decided to follow Jesus...which part of it includes repentance from the heart. 

In a parallel way all believers are saved but some believers continue in sin...and I say that with a grain of salt...because someone can be in sin in his ignorance...and there is the Lords Grace...

But not every believer is part of the body of Christ...to be part of the body of Jesus Christ it will require to want to have Jesus as Lord in your Life and not just as a Savior,..

Edited February 2, 2023 by Your closest friendnt