The Pre-Existence Of Christ

[Walter and Deborah]

Saturday 1-28-23 7th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Shavat 5 5783 38th. Winter Day

The gospel of John, however, goes far beyond such "reporting." It gives us penetrating depth and analysis missing in the other gospels. John gives us an inner glimpse into the PLAN AND PURPOSE of God, WHY Christ was sent, and over and over explains that He came down from Heaven, previously abode with the Father, and gave up His divinity to become flesh (John One:1-4, 14).

John testifies that Christ is greater than Moses (John One:17), and plainly writes, "No one has ever seen God [the Father], but GOD THE ONE AND ONLY, who is at the Father's side, has made him known" (v.18). The Gospel of John In John Three, we read, "The one who comes from above is above all. . . The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard . . ." (John Three:31-32). John plainly states, "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven -- the Son of Man" (John Three:13). In John 5, we read that the Jews tried to KILL Jesus because they perceived by His words that He claimed to be divine. "For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD" (verse 18).

In John 6, Jesus repeatedly referred to the simple fact (it seems so simple when we read it, if we will just believe what Jesus says, and not what some men try to make Him say by their twisting and distorting and misinterpreting His words!) that he is "the bread of God" who "comes down from heaven and gives his life to the world" (v.33), "I have come down from heaven" (v.38), "I am the bread that came down from heaven" (v.41), "I came down from heaven" (v.42), "No one has SEEN the Father except the one who is FROM GOD, only he has seen the Father" (v.46), "But here is the bread that came down from heaven" (v.50), "I am the living bread that came down from heaven" (v.51), "This is the bread that came down from heaven" (v.58).

Jesus went on to state that nobody could really believe this essential truth unless they are specially enabled to do so by the Father (verse 65). You cannot approach the Son of God and understand Him by coming to Him via the avenue of human scholarship, or Jewish study of the Torah, or the misguided Churches of mainstream Christianity, or the various sects and cults. Does this explain why so-called "scholars" are unable to understand basic, fundamental truths of Scripture?

Love, Walter and Debbie

[other one]

Jesus and Yahweh are the same entity...   Jesus represented the Godhead to humans throughout all mankind's history.

[kwikphilly]

21 hours ago, Walter and Deborah said:

Saturday 1-28-23 7th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Shavat 5 5783 38th. Winter Day

The gospel of John, however, goes far beyond such "reporting." It gives us penetrating depth and analysis missing in the other gospels. John gives us an inner glimpse into the PLAN AND PURPOSE of God, WHY Christ was sent, and over and over explains that He came down from Heaven, previously abode with the Father, and gave up His divinity to become flesh (John One:1-4, 14).

John testifies that Christ is greater than Moses (John One:17), and plainly writes, "No one has ever seen God [the Father], but GOD THE ONE AND ONLY, who is at the Father's side, has made him known" (v.18). The Gospel of John In John Three, we read, "The one who comes from above is above all. . . The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard . . ." (John Three:31-32). John plainly states, "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven -- the Son of Man" (John Three:13). In John 5, we read that the Jews tried to KILL Jesus because they perceived by His words that He claimed to be divine. "For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD" (verse 18).

In John 6, Jesus repeatedly referred to the simple fact (it seems so simple when we read it, if we will just believe what Jesus says, and not what some men try to make Him say by their twisting and distorting and misinterpreting His words!) that he is "the bread of God" who "comes down from heaven and gives his life to the world" (v.33), "I have come down from heaven" (v.38), "I am the bread that came down from heaven" (v.41), "I came down from heaven" (v.42), "No one has SEEN the Father except the one who is FROM GOD, only he has seen the Father" (v.46), "But here is the bread that came down from heaven" (v.50), "I am the living bread that came down from heaven" (v.51), "This is the bread that came down from heaven" (v.58).

Jesus went on to state that nobody could really believe this essential truth unless they are specially enabled to do so by the Father (verse 65). You cannot approach the Son of God and understand Him by coming to Him via the avenue of human scholarship, or Jewish study of the Torah, or the misguided Churches of mainstream Christianity, or the various sects and cults. Does this explain why so-called "scholars" are unable to understand basic, fundamental truths of Scripture?

Love, Walter and Debbie

Yes,that is why- academics do not convict anyone - Holy Spirit Does,the Eyes of Understanding are not opened by logic,reason or intellect

Praise Jesus!

In His Love,Kwik

[Mama Etna]

From the text of this study: "we read that the Jews tried to KILL Jesus because they perceived by His words that He claimed to be divine."  Perceive is a personal word.  It is how an individual sees something, whether it is true or not.  This word is not found in the scripture verse.

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. - Matthew 5:18

The supply of man made studies is endless.  It is safest to just stick with the Bible.

[Mr. M]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:29 AM, Walter and Deborah said:

Love, Walter and Debbie

This type of discussion requires the proper comprehension of the difference 

between creation, and manifestation. EVERYTHING pre-existed the founding of

the world in the creative imagination of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

"First God (elohim) created everything"

The manifestations begins through the Son, as "the Light of Life".

Then elohim said let there be light.

The Father and Son and Holy Spirit knew by foreknowledge that there would be a great flood.

It did not manifest until the time of Noah, who received instructions from the Son.

The Father the Son and Holy Spirit had foreknowledge of Christ, the seed of Abraham,

but the first manifestation began with the first promise to Abram in Genesis 12, for 

Christ is the fulfillment of all promises made, and confirmed by an oath. 

This is why Jesus could say "before Abraham was, I Am".

But also say "Abraham saw my day (the incarnation) and rejoiced.

This is why the scripture says "the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy."

1 Peter 1:

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully,

who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 

11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them

was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ

and the glories that would follow. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Mr. M

[ayin jade]

36 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

This type of discussion requires the proper comprehension of the difference 

between creation, and manifestation. EVERYTHING pre-existed the founding of

the world in the creative imagination of the Father. "First God created everything"

The manifestations begin with the Son, and "let there be light". 

The Father knew by foreknowledge that there would be a great flood.

It did not manifest until the time of Noah, who received instructions from the Son.

The Father and the Son had foreknowledge of Christ, the seed of Abraham, but the 

first manifestation began with the first promise to Abram in Genesis 12, for 

Christ is the fulfillment of all promises made, and confirmed by an oath. 

This is why Jesus could say "before Abraham was, I Am".

But also say "Abraham saw my day (the incarnation) and rejoiced.

This is why the scripture says "the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy."

1 Peter 1:

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully,

who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 

11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them

was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ

and the glories that would follow. 

I am a bit confused on your meaning here. Are you saying Jesus is not part of the Godhead, not part of the Trinity of God? Do you believe He is a created being?

[Jaydub]

3 hours ago, other one said:

Jesus and Yahweh are the same entity...   Jesus represented the Godhead to humans throughout all mankind's history.

If I may give you my  thought here, I don't believe to say Jesus and Yahweh is  actually correct. It was not the Father who wrestled with Jacob.

It was not the father who walked with Abraham. It was not the Father who spoke to Gideon. These were Christophanies.

John 6:46

No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Because of this, we know it was not the father but the Son who appeared in the old testament 

I am that I am refers to his eternal existence. Jesus used the term for himself when he said before Abraham was I am

When we see YHWH, Yahweh in scriptures we now know that it is the name of God almighty. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit

Yahweh the Father

Yahweh the Son

Yahweh the Holy Spirit

or the trinity

46 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

"First God created everything"

The manifestations begin with the Son, and "let there be light". 

You make it sound like the son is not eternal, but we know in John chapter 1, that all things were created through Jesus

nothing that was created was created without him,  

making him eternal because he couldnt have created himself

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Yes,that is why- academics do not convict anyone - Holy Spirit Does,the Eyes of Understanding are not opened by logic,reason or intellect

Praise Jesus!

In His Love,Kwik

But we do need to devote time and attention to studying the Word of God with the help of the Holy Spirit. Our Father wants us to be knowledgeable regarding His Word.  Theology IS an academic discipline.  

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

- 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

[Mr. M]

28 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

I am a bit confused on your meaning here. Are you saying Jesus is not part of the Godhead, not part of the Trinity of God? Do you believe He is a created being?

Of course Jesus is part of the Godhead, he is the Son as the explanation details and pre-existed.

The MANIFESTATION occurs with the conception of His mother Mary.

Hence the opening statement. creation vs. manifestation. The Son of God became a man when He took on flesh.

There was no man Jesus of Nazareth walking the earth until He was born of a woman born under Law, etc...

His pre-existence is established by the fact that He participated with the Father and the Holy Spirit in creation.

Creation...Manifestation.

[kwikphilly]

10 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

But we do need to devote time and attention to studying the Word of God with the help of the Holy Spirit. Our Father wants us to be knowledgeable regarding His Word.  Theology IS an academic discipline.  

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

- 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

Walter asked that question,I answered it......his question had nothing to do with the importance of studying God's Word,which I take quite seriously and will continue to for the remainder of my natural life.  

I'm not quite sure why you addressed me by quoting my reply to Walter but in any event I do hope you are not implying that I or anyone else here is not diligent in our studies?

Be Blessed,Have a Happy Sunday