The Legalistic Elephant In The Room

[Michael37]

Just now, Starise said:

Most do. Not an express requirement so far as I can tell.

Should studies be prepared beforehand by an authorised person who leads the study group or can they be spontaneous from anything arising among group members?

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, Starise said:

Most do. Not an express requirement so far as I can tell.

Certainly should come natural. Let's establish who is in charge throughout. 

Inviting a growing young Christian to open or close in prayer is a learning, 

discipleship opportunity, "to find their legs" under the presence of the Lord.

[Starise]

18 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Should studies be prepared beforehand by an authorised person who leads the study group or can they be spontaneous from anything arising among group members?

I believe some have apprehensions that are not necessarily in scripture. I think anyone teaching 'should' be prepared.

Note- I was concerned about that title and pictured a few names of persons. I was relieved this was only representative.

[Mr. M]

20 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Should studies be prepared beforehand by an authorised person who leads the study group or can they be spontaneous from anything arising among group members?

When Victory Fellowship was at its peak membership in the GNO (greater New Orleans) there were over

100 home groups (called cell groups) on both sides of the Mississippi and on the north shore of lake Pontchartrain.

The team leadership prepared a study guide for unity throughout. When this policy waned, many groups splintered

off as some home group leaders decided as Pastors they were ready to lead their regulars. It was disgusting to me,

as obviously not the vision of the church, but diligence is required because nothing can become routine, and Satan

is always busy, looking to destroy our unity.

[Michael37]

2 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

When Victory Fellowship was at its peak membership in the GNO (greater New Orleans) there were over

100 home groups (called cell groups) on both sides of the Mississippi and on the north shore of lake Pontchartrain.

The team leadership prepared a study guide for unity throughout. When this policy waned, many groups splintered

off as some home group leaders decided as Pastors they were ready to lead their regulars. It was disgusting to me,

as obviously not the vision of the church, but diligence is required because nothing can become routine, and Satan

is always busy, looking to destroy our unity.

A familiar story. 

I read an interesting study about productivity in the workplace. It was no one particular thing that was found to maintain the desired level but rather the influence of variety. In one case study a radio playing saw a rise in productivity, but when the level began to wane the removal of the radio element saw it rise again. 

My ministry training included the advice that the worst thing you can do is the same thing all the time. 

[Marathoner]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that with us, @Michael37. 

With all of the discussion in this vein as of late (multiple interrelated topics here and there on the forum), I've been learning more about a religion that I've never been a part of. It always seemed strange and even incomprehensible at times. I only knew what the Lord charged me with: to be merciful and patient toward others as He has always been toward me, never forgetting that I'm not better nor worse than my neighbor.

I wish to take care with my words, identifying that I'm a stranger to the churches as the reason why the religion of the churches mystified me for so long. The churches have never been the Body of Christ in my experience. You are a part (member) of the Body of Christ. Together, we are the Body of Christ. 

Christ is the Head and the Spirit of the Lord is our Helper and His voice which we hear and obey, so the Lord Himself governs His Church, not man. That describes what I have known from the beginning, and what I witnessed when I walked into a cavernous old farmhouse where 200 brothers and sisters waited upon my arrival. I did not see a church or even a fellowship, my friends.

I witnessed the Body of Christ in a vision and the Lord said to me, This is where you belong. I have visited churches but like you, Michael, I'm not bound to remain nor engage in their enterprise. Being unfettered by concerns which others have --- family, wives, and such --- when the Lord says, Go to this place, that's where I go. When He says, The time has come for you to depart, then I leave. 

There have been occasions when the Lord has said, You will never return to this place, such as the mountains where I came close to death. I miss that wilderness but the Lord reminds me of His word so I won't forget. 

One day, I hope to understand that religion of the churches, but the Spirit sends me to them so infrequently that I suspect I never will. He sends me to places like "The Warzone" in this city instead. That's what the natives of this city call this part of town. 

[Michael37]

3 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that with us, @Michael37. 

With all of the discussion in this vein as of late (multiple interrelated topics here and there on the forum), I've been learning more about a religion that I've never been a part of. It always seemed strange and even incomprehensible at times. I only knew what the Lord charged me with: to be merciful and patient toward others as He has always been toward me, never forgetting that I'm not better nor worse than my neighbor.

I wish to take care with my words, identifying that I'm a stranger to the churches as the reason why the religion of the churches mystified me for so long. The churches have never been the Body of Christ in my experience. You are a part (member) of the Body of Christ. Together, we are the Body of Christ. 

Christ is the Head and the Spirit of the Lord is our Helper and His voice which we hear and obey, so the Lord Himself governs His Church, not man. That describes what I have known from the beginning, and what I witnessed when I walked into a cavernous old farmhouse where 200 brothers and sisters waited upon my arrival. I did not see a church or even a fellowship, my friends.

I witnessed the Body of Christ in a vision and the Lord said to me, This is where you belong. I have visited churches but like you, Michael, I'm not bound to remain nor engage in their enterprise. Being unfettered by concerns which others have --- family, wives, and such --- when the Lord says, Go to this place, that's where I go. When He says, The time has come for you to depart, then I leave. 

There have been occasions when the Lord has said, You will never return to this place, such as the mountains where I came close to death. I miss that wilderness but the Lord reminds me of His word so I won't forget. 

One day, I hope to understand that religion of the churches, but the Spirit sends me to them so infrequently that I suspect I never will. He sends me to places like "The Warzone" in this city instead. That's what the natives of this city call this part of town. 

All good, the package deal is not for everyone and it puts me in mind of John the Baptist and how he might have been received in synagogues or the temple, coming in from the wilderness after a meal of locusts and wild honey wearing his garment of camel hair and a leather belt, exhorting everyone to repent. 

Jeremiah too, standing outside the temple to deliver a prophecy which as Matthew Henry comments, "would affront the priests, and expose the prophet to their rage,".

[Michael37]

53 minutes ago, Starise said:

Note- I was concerned about that title and pictured a few names of persons. I was relieved this was only representative.

Yes, a general exhortation inspired by real life events which I have found myself somewhat tiring of.

 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:04 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Michael,

I would also add the emotional nonverbal requirements, eg.

"If you don`t attend man`s public meetings each week then you are backsliding."

"Man`s public meetings by organisations are the only recognized authority of the church."

"You have to obey the person up front." Meaning whatever they say is right, whereas the word `obey` in Greek mean to listen to and obviously weigh up if it is correct. 

This is so true. I actually had a minister tell me a couple years ago that it didn't matter how nice I was, or how much I volunteered, or how much I try to witness to others. He said nothing matters as much as church attendance. He actually had the nerve to tell me I might not be saved since I don't attend church. I had to try very hard not to tell this so called man of God off. Sadly many judge their christianity by their involvement in church. They think if they go to church, then they are great christians. Also sadly, I've met too many who you would never know by their actions outside of church that they called themselves christians.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

This is so true. I actually had a minister tell me a couple years ago that it didn't matter how nice I was, or how much I volunteered, or how much I try to witness to others. He said nothing matters as much as church attendance. He actually had the nerve to tell me I might not be saved since I don't attend church. I had to try very hard not to tell this so called man of God off. Sadly many judge their christianity by their involvement in church. They think if they go to church, then they are great christians. Also sadly, I've met too many who you would never know by their actions outside of church that they called themselves christians.

Hi TrueFollowerofChrist,

Sad but true. I don`t call man`s public meetings `church,` because they are not. They are public meetings put on by man`s organizations giving authority to whom they chose.

The true church as God`s word says is the Body of Christ. (Eph. 1: 22 & 23) And that is the ekklesia, the called out ones from Israel and the nations. (Eph. 2: 15)

When we call man`s organisation public meetings then it loses its hold and we then can really appreciate the Body of Christ.