Four questions for YECs - (and a little history of creationism vs evolution)

[Sparks]

8 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The Andromeda Galaxy is a galaxy like ours, but somewhat larger.   It is a tiny blur of light in the night sky, but it has billions of stars like our own.  Comparing the sizes of our own solar system which is about 0.0005 light-years across, we're looking at a galaxy about 152,000 light years across.   And yet that is only a tiny smudge of light in the sky, about 3 degrees of arc.  Doing a bit of trig, one can determine the distance, which is about 25 million light-years.  

So YE is completely refuted by the night sky.

This is not about parallax.   This is why you keep having difficulties.   We have a good estimate for the size of the Andromeda Galaxy, and we have the degrees of arc it shows from the Earth.    If you have one side of a triangle, and the opposite angle, you can find the sides and the distance from the one side to that angle.  

It's about having no method to reach to 14.6 billion years, by a long shot.   If you cannot measure that far, you cannot claim that age of the universe.

8 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

  Would you like me to show you how?

Not in your Dunning-Kruger method.   No thanks. 

[Sparks]

14 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

As you know, the evidence says billions.  Here's how we know:

For the newer estimate of 13.8 billion years old, announced in 2020, Simone Aiola, a research scientist at the Center for Computational Astrophysics at the Flatiron Institute in New York City, led a team of scientists who reexamined the cosmic microwave background using the ACT, according to their study, published in the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics. 

"Although these maps cover a smaller region than the ones released by the Planck team, their improved resolution allows for more precise measurements," Aiola told Live Science. "Our observations provide an independent measurement of the CMB sky that can be compared to the measurement made by the Planck team."

https://www.livescience.com/how-know-age-of-universe

And I think physicists are a much more reliable source of information about physics than you are.   Sorry about that.

Announce it all you want.  You cannot measure that far.

[Alive]

11 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Mount Saint Helens just illustrates the idea that a deep canyon can be cut in hours, not trillions of years.

I do not know for certain whether the earth itself is old or new, but I am convinced that the geology of the present earth was formed by Noah's flood.

[The Barbarian]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

When hydrologists look at the strata, they see not only the layering, but also the discontinuities in the strata! Mount St. Helens is a miniature of the Grand Canyon, cut in 4 years!

No, that's false.   Layering at Mt. St. Helens is just discontinuities in the erosion process.   In the Grand Canyon, they are alternately grasslands, deserts, forests, and ocean bottom.   But as you know, less than ten meters of soft sediment is nothing like the mile-deep Grand Canyon with all those changing landscapes in the rock.  No "hydrologist" makes an error like that.

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

That's because "the fountains of the deep were broken up!" (Genesis 7:11). They weren't placidly laid down in layers; they were JUMBLED TOGETHER! There ARE NO pre-Flood sections! What was pre-Flood can't be distinguished from what was laid down post-Flood!

You guys might want to get your stories straight.  

https://assets.answersingenesis.org/doc/articles/aid/v5/catastrophic_plate_tectonics.pdf

Furthermore, whale fossils are only known in Cenozoic (and thus post-Flood) sediments.71 This seems to run counter to the intuitive expectation that the whales should have been found in or
even throughout Flood sediments.

https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j09_2/j09_2_216-222.pdf

The Grand Canyon itself is a late Cenozoic feature, characteristic of renewed erosion during this time.

https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/nature/geologicformations.htm

The problem with supposing an ocean of water above the Earth is that it would block almost all sunlight.    That's why the ocean is essentially lightless even a few hundred meters down.

 

 

 

[teddyv]

13 minutes ago, Alive said:

I do not know for certain whether the earth itself is old or new, but I am convinced that the geology of the present earth was formed by Noah's flood.

What, in particular, convinces you?

[teddyv]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, teddyv.

When hydrologists look at the strata, they see not only the layering, but also the discontinuities in the strata! Mount St. Helens is a miniature of the Grand Canyon, cut in 4 years!

Sorry? I don't know the word "lithofed." Are you saying it was "lithofied?" as in "changed into rock?" or are you saying that it was "lifted up?" or ...what?

That's because "the fountains of the deep were broken up!" (Genesis 7:11). They weren't placidly laid down in layers; they were JUMBLED TOGETHER! There ARE NO pre-Flood sections! What was pre-Flood can't be distinguished from what was laid down post-Flood!

Before the Flood, we have 1,656 years (See Genesis 5), and then there was the year of the Flood. In all of the time prior to the Flood, we're not told of any geologic changes to the land - no volcanoes, no earthquakes.

Then, in Genesis 7, we read,

Genesis 7:11-12 (KJV)

11 In the six hundredth (600th) year of Noah's life, in the second (2nd) month, the seventeenth (17th) day of the month, the same day were ALL the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows (sluicegates) of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

This was NOT some local, "tranquil" flood! This was a MASSIVE EVENT! I do believe that, before the Flood, we did have a Pangaea - a single massive continent - that rose above sea level, making all the waters below the skies a single massive "Panthallassa" - a single ocean. And, the Flood didn't begin on the land but beneath the ocean! This disrupted the balance above the skies, and started the rain to fall.

Have you ever considered just how much water would have fallen if the waters below the skies were the same amount as the waters above the skies? Whereas the amount of water in the ocean DID change during the FLOOD, there was the same amount of water overall as there is today.

It is estimated that the earth contains 326 quintillion gallons of water! If God divided the waters in half and put half of that water above the skies, then we're talking 163 quintillion gallons above the skies. Now, there are 24 hours in a day and night period, and it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. So, it rained for 24 x 40 = 960 hours. That means that we have an average of 163 quintillion gallons / 960 hours = 169,791,666,666,666,667 gallons fell per hour! The surface area of the earth is 196,900,000 square miles. Multiplying the square miles by 5280 x 5280 square feet per square mile and dividing the total gallons / hour by the result, gives one 30.9316 gallons / sq ft / hour ... ON AVERAGE! No breathing creature on the face of the earth would have stood a chance! They would be drowned in a matter of a couple of minutes!

Spelling error. Should have been lithified. 

Can't address other parts of the post at the moment.

[The Barbarian]

26 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Announce it all you want.  You cannot measure that far.

I just showed you that simple trigonometry can give you a rough estimate of the distance to the Andromeda Galaxy.

It has a diameter of about 200,000 light years, based on the number of sunlike stars in it.   To find the line bisecting the triangle composed of the Earth and each end of the galaxy, we divide 100,000 by the tangent of 3 degrees, which give us about 1.9 million light-years.   More accurate methods for measuring size and distance give us about 2.4 million light years.

So there's really no way to fit the universe into a YE doctrine.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by The Barbarian

[Alive]

6 minutes ago, teddyv said:

What, in particular, convinces you?

Because I believe scripture and I believe my Lord Jesus. Noah's flood was hugely catastrophic.

[teddyv]

Just now, Alive said:

Because I believe scripture and I believe my Lord Jesus. Noah's flood was hugely catastrophic.

Ok. I accept the first statement as well. The narrative.of the Flood is certainly catastrophic but any evidence of it it appears to be hidden from us. I don't have any issue with anyone accepting the Flood as a divine miracle since that moves it out of the realm of scientific inquiry.

[Sparks]

18 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I just showed you that simple trigonometry can give you a rough estimate of the distance to the Andromeda Galaxy.

It has a diameter of about 200,000 light years, based on the number of sunlike stars in it.   To find the line bisecting the triangle composed of the Earth and each end of the galaxy, we divide 100,000 by the tangent of 3 degrees, which give us about 1.9 million light-years.   More accurate methods for measuring size and distance give us about 2.4 million light years.

So there's really no way to fit the universe into a YE doctrine.

I have told you that no distance measuring methods can tell you that the most distant stars are 14.6 billion light years away.  Let me know what that registers with you, because you cannot claim that the universe is 14.6 billion years old if you cannot measure to that distance.