Anyone else watch "Table Talk?"

[Neighbor]

39 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Is it really "another gospel" or is it just the "warts"?  In other words, to they go against the core items of our faith?

Hi,

You made me dig out my copy of Kingdom of The Cults by Walter R. Martin, Bethany House Publishers. He devoted some 62 pages of this book to  an "Appendix: The puzzle of Seventh Day Adventism".

Might make for interesting reading. He had already written a full  volume on the Christian denomination of Seventh Day Adventism titled: The Truth About Seventh Day Adventism published by Zondervan 1960.

What you may be calling warts Walter Martin calls heterodox concepts. Martin acknowledges many others that do call SDA a cult; but note he does not do so himself.

Funny I see that my copy is heavily marked up and underlined. Evidently at one time long ago this topic was of interest to me.

Course at this point in life I wonder why I have a book from 1982 on cults and evidently was reading it back then. 

..................................

footnote: 

heterodox

hĕt′ər-ə-dŏks″

adjective

Not in agreement with accepted beliefs, especially in church doctrine or dogma.

Holding unorthodox opinions.

Contrary to, or differing from, some acknowledged standard, as the Bible, the creed of a church, the decree of a council, and the like; not orthodox; heretical; -- said of opinions, doctrines, books, etc., esp. upon theological sub

 

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Is it really "another gospel" or is it just the "warts"?  In other words, to they go against the core items of our faith?

The SDA does not preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ so yes indeed, they preach another gospel. 

Those who eat pork will be cast into the lake of fire. Those who eat meat are in danger of being cast into the lake of fire; this reflects a change of stance over the past 25 years or so. Their previous doctrine was "the lake of fire" for eating meat. Those who don't observe a Saturday Sabbath are disobeying the Lord and will be cast into the lake of fire. Those who go to churches on Sunday worship a false Jesus and will be cast into the lake of fire.

Then, of course, there's the "investigative judgment" doctrine. Just a sampling of noteworthy SDA heresy, my friend. Warts? No. 

Their source? Ellen G. White and her "visions." Not warts.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Marathoner
Typo

[Neighbor]

Miller and then Millerites were not alone,  he was one of many  that were projecting  a soon return. It was first a European movement of the time. Today we still have many a movement or at least church bodies seeing a certain moment to come and come soon. It is the making of many a successful book or even series  of books and movies.

What also differentiates The SDA from many is the issue of "soul sleep". Plus they do not accept that Yeshua made a  full sacrificial atonement on  the cross, they tend to  say yes he did but....

Also they reject the doctrine of eternal torment

Plus there is their sanctuary service and investigative judgement. That is one to read for sure!

[Marathoner]

Neighbor points out one of the heretical roots of the SDA investigative judgment doctrine. The work of the Son of God wasn't completed on the Cross; in 1844, the Lord entered the "heavenly sanctuary" to continue His work. The investigative judgment determines if someone actually "sleeps in Christ" or not.

Pork eater? Not in Christ. Sunday church-goer? Not in Christ. And so on. 

Bizarre. It's on par with the strange doctrines of Mormonism (the weirdness of "celestial marriages"). 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Marathoner

[Vine Abider]

OK, I agree these teachings and practices are strange and/or off the mark (of which I am actually well aware), but are they really against any of the core items of the Christian faith? If so, which ones?  I don't know that any mentioned here so far, qualify as a core faith item.

In any case, I've not heard one of the far off SDA things in the discussion of the bros in Table Topics.  Believe me, my "antennae" has been up while watching, and no spidey sense has gone off after seeing at least a dozen  of these programs.  When I watch most other SDA programs, I cannot say the same thing and turn them off quickly.  My opinion is the Table Topics program is something pure.

[Michael37]

25 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

OK, I agree these teachings and practices are strange and/or off the mark (of which I am actually well aware), but are they really against any of the core items of the Christian faith? If so, which ones?  I don't know that any mentioned here so far, qualify as a core faith item.

In any case, I've not heard one of the far off SDA things in the discussion of the bros in Table Topics.  Believe me, my "antennae" has been up while watching, and no spidey sense has gone off after seeing at least a dozen  of these programs.  When I watch most other SDA programs, I cannot say the same thing and turn them off quickly.  My opinion is the Table Topics program is something pure.

We have two free-to-air SDA TV Channels in NZ. Like other Christian media there is a mix of truth and error.

Whilst SDA has some very scholastic and gifted preachers it just shows how easily even they can be duped.

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

OK, I agree these teachings and practices are strange and/or off the mark (of which I am actually well aware), but are they really against any of the core items of the Christian faith? If so, which ones?  I don't know that any mentioned here so far, qualify as a core faith item.

In any case, I've not heard one of the far off SDA things in the discussion of the bros in Table Topics.  Believe me, my "antennae" has been up while watching, and no spidey sense has gone off after seeing at least a dozen  of these programs.  When I watch most other SDA programs, I cannot say the same thing and turn them off quickly.  My opinion is the Table Topics program is something pure.

Hi VA,

I just went and had a quick look at Table Talk. It is a great format with men talking and sharing around the table and a topic. I saw that it was of the SDA group and looked at their beliefs which they posted. All seemed `good ` however I think they try to live out the laws of God instead of the Holy Spirit within us looking to the Lord. 

You might like to watch for that.

Marilyn.

[Vine Abider]

15 hours ago, Michael37 said:

We have two free-to-air SDA TV Channels in NZ. Like other Christian media there is a mix of truth and error.

Whilst SDA has some very scholastic and gifted preachers it just shows how easily even they can be duped.

 

Agreed! I throw SDA programs in there when I'm surfing different Christian channels.  Here in the Phoenix area there are like 4-5 SDA channels (one Spanish and one for kids) and maybe 5 channels by other Christians.  I certainly see things on SDA channels that bother me, but I also see lots of programming on other Christian channels that bother me too and that I think are pretty far off!

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I just went and had a quick look at Table Talk. It is a great format with men talking and sharing around the table and a topic. I saw that it was of the SDA group and looked at their beliefs which they posted. All seemed `good ` however I think they try to live out the laws of God instead of the Holy Spirit within us looking to the Lord. 

You might like to watch for that.

Marilyn.

I've had discussion with current and former SDA members, and what I hear is there is a pretty wide range within the SDA church itself.  Some, especially younger ones, are gravitating away from the "old guard" who adhere to White's teachings. I've also had some correspondence with one of the leaders of Table Talk, Ty Gibson, and he expressed the same thing.

The Anointing in me tells me it's good to fellowship with those in SDA, and I've had some specific leadings of the Lord in that respect.  As I said in another post, I find nothing in their beliefs that counter the essential/core tenets of Christian faith, including the deity of Christ and salvation by faith in Him alone . . . at least not in the ones I've encountered.

Now can they get all legalistic and caught up in the Sabbath day thing and over emphasize healthy eating?  Sure.  And is their foundation on an erroneous prophesy?  Yup.  And did Ellen White have some "interesting/bizarre" visions (to say the least)?  You bet!  But these dear ones are not in the same camp as JWs or Mormons - I believe at least most of them are born again with Christ living in them.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Vine Abider
typo

[Michael37]

6 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Agreed! I throw SDA programs in there when I'm surfing different Christian channels.  Here in the Phoenix area there are like 4-5 SDA channels (one Spanish and one for kids) and maybe 5 channels by other Christians.  I certainly see things on SDA channels that bother me, but I also see lots of programming on other Christian channels that bother me too and that I think are pretty far off!

I've had discussion with current and former SDA members, and what I hear is there is a pretty wide range within the SDA church itself.  Some, especially younger ones, are gravitating away from the "old guard" who adhere to White's teachings. I've also had some correspondence with one of the leaders of Table Talk, Ty Gibson, and he expressed the same thing.

The Anointing in me tells me it's good to fellowship with those in SDA, and I've had some specific leadings of the Lord in that respect.  As I said in another post, I find nothing in their beliefs that counter the essential/core tenets of Christian faith, including the deity of Christ and salvation by faith in Him alone . . . at least not in the ones I've encountered.

Now can they get all legalistic and caught up in the Sabbath day thing and over emphasize healthy eating?  Sure.  And is their foundation on an erroneous prophesy?  Yup.  And did Ellen White have some "interesting/bizarre" visions (to say the least)?  You bet!  But these dear ones are not in the same camp as JWs or Mormons - I believe at least most of them are born again with Christ living in them.

You might have seen David Asscherick preaching. His "Holy Hopscotch" style is unique. He is still fill of vigour as he emphasises his points by hopping from one leg to the other back and forth across the platform. It will be interesting to watch him doing this a decade or two on as an old man.

[Marathoner]

21 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Now can they get all legalistic and caught up in the Sabbath day thing and over emphasize healthy eating?  Sure.  And is their foundation on an erroneous prophesy?  Yup.  And did Ellen White have some "interesting/bizarre" visions (to say the least)?  You bet!  But these dear ones are not in the same camp as JWs or Mormons - I believe at least most of them are born again with Christ living in them.

The SDA church preaches adherence to their version of dietary laws --- this is a matter of salvation --- so characterizing the different gospel they preach as over emphasizing "healthy eating" is a bid to obfuscate the truth of this matter. In this way, the SDA church deviates from the essential doctrine of Christ and His apostles. No one is condemned by the food they eat, my friend. Food for the stomach and the stomach for food; God will destroy them both. 

Just as well, "the Sabbath day thing" is another bid to downplay SDA heterodoxy. Like food for the stomach, the "Sabbath day thing" is a matter of salvation according to SDA doctrine. Therefore, according to the SDA church, salvation is not in Jesus Christ alone. 

Dismissing concerns regarding the SDA church is dangerous for the young and the vulnerable, Vine Abider. The young and the vulnerable are who SDA proselytizers hunt like wolves in sheep's clothing. If I didn't know better, I'd think that I was reading the usual smoke and mirrors their proselytizers deploy to deceive even the elect. Healthy eating? Sabbath day thing? I've heard that before. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Marathoner