Living In The Religious Matrix

[Marathoner]

The subject matter isn't something I've had to deal with, @Starise. I've only had to contend with my own doubt, shortcomings, dim vision, and thick skull. 

Over decades of time the Lord has been faithful to smash this skull, shipwreck my doubt, and open these eyes to how much I need His teaching and guidance. My entanglement with a fellowship happened and ended a very long time ago, and I'm thankful that I departed their proverbial house before it collapsed into a literal heap.

I've only visited with churches, but this doesn't mean that I was oblivious to brouhaha simmering under that sanctuary veneer. This was why I remained a visitor, brother. I couldn't tolerate such things for long.

I'm at home with a gathering of brethren in the spirit of @Vine Abider's group. No veneers... no brouhaha simmering on back burners... just brothers and sisters gathering in the Spirit of Christ. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Marathoner

[AnOrangeCat]

For me it wasn't something wrong, per se, but views of Hell and the rapture were a lot more varied than my family or any of the churches I grew up attending ever let on.

[The_Patriot21]

I'm just going to leave this here...

I see a lot of people saying that we "messed up the church"

Well, I don't necessarily know you or what specifically your talking about, so if this doesn't apply don't think its about you, but I'm going to say it anyway.

9 out of 10 people who I see use that line, are using it as nothing more then an excuse not to go. They're not seeking out a church that does follow their idea of a Biblical church, they're not starting one themselves, no they're out their on the lake fishing, or playing bingo or whatever it is they enjoy doing, but they themselves are disobeying the Bible, in that they are literally forsaking the fellowship.

Now, are churches today perfect? No. Not one. They all have their issues, that is true. But that's because they're made of people like you and me. We're not perfect, so no church is going to be perfect.

And avoiding them, doesn't help them. Or is. But being a part of them, does. We as believers can hold each other's accountable, we can help each other grow.

And I'm not just talking about going to church on Sunday. Which I think that's great...but if you, or anyone else thinks church is just about going to church on Sunday, then your missing the entire point of church.

Church is about being a part of a group of like-minded believers who can pick each other up when they are down, pray for each other, hold each other accountable. And they can't do that if they don't spend time with each other. It doesn't matter if they hold services on Sundays like a traditional American church, or Saturday evenings, or even home churches, I believe it is absolutely vital to all christians to be part of a church fellowship somewhere.

If your local church has issues then work at fixing them. But avoiding them just because they're messed up....I'm sorry but that's just an excuse. Yes they're messed up, but two wrongs don't ever, make a right.

[enoob57]

Knowing God through Scripture is hard and demanding - a 100% demand of the person seeking after God knowing that if I get this wrong, I have missed the purpose of God writing it down for me... because I am not a particularly smart man... I have had to invest thousands of dollars into a digital library of tools and resources of smart men that are gifted teachers... to understand the hermeneutics of written material so as to be certain it is 'thus sayeth The Lord' and not what men in error think it is... this is man's responsibility and it cannot be put upon God

Jeremiah 29:11 (KJV)

[11] For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

[12] Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

[13] And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

John 17:17 (KJV)

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The directions are written down in an objective format and one must approach them in an objective way... The Scripture is a work of the Holy Spirit ... so do the work- for God has encouraged us to do so
John 14:21 (KJV)

[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 7:17 (KJV)

[17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

 

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, Starise said:

 

 

If I were to make a break from my church it would really hurt in terms of those missed relationships. I know my better half will absolutely hate it because she has good friends there. So far as fellowship we have never had it better than where we are now. It's like an extended family. 

 

 

Hi Starise,

That really stood out to me - `missed relationships.` So....if you didn`t go to the public meeting each week are you saying that those friendships would not continue? mmmm that doesn`t sound like true friends. Am I missing something there?

Hubby and I always made sure that our friendships went beyond any meetings and even to have friends who went elsewhere and also those who didn`t go to any public meetings.

Might be time to develop friends who don`t measure their friendships by attendance at public meetings.

Some friends of ours did find that when they left their public meeting, (and they were in eldership and husband a recognized prophet,) that only one person visited them and then no more. Sad. But now they are reaching out to others whether the people go to public meetings or not. 

regards, Marilyn.

 

BTW I think each public meeting is now according to the person in charge and their beliefs. 

 

[Starise]

On 3/25/2023 at 1:24 AM, Marilyn C said:

That really stood out to me - `missed relationships.` So....if you didn`t go to the public meeting each week are you saying that those friendships would not continue? mmmm that doesn`t sound like true friends. Am I missing something there?

Over the years after we moved or I had some kind of a huge life change which required us to seek another location for worship. Many of those saints have gone on to be with the Lord, but many we still bump into locally here in my area, and a few will call on occasion who still attend the other churches to get together with us.

I can't say I have ever had a bad experience if I bumped into someone we knew from before. Usually it's a good thing and we are glad to see one another again. I had been in some tense places with at least a few of those people in the past and we still meet for dinner on occasion. 

Probably the main issue now is we simply seldom see one another any more. Before we seen each other at least once or twice a week. The church meetings held us closer.

Most of us can relate to changing jobs and churches. The dynamic changes. We have made new friends and left others to be seldom seen. Some of the people who I thought were my friends weren't while others I never suspected have kept at least small ties. Really not enough time for us to keep up with everyone, and it's unfortunate. 

To answer your question some friendshuips would fade because those people don't have the time to reach out outside of church.

[TheBlade]

They do say hindsight is 2020  I can't speak for most or even few Churches or pastors since I don't know most few. Now I don't go to any Presbyterian Church. Like the song playing 

The Liberator is in the house
The sound of healing is breaking out
Step into the freedom, step into the freedom we've found
The God of Heaven is speaking now
His Word is tearing our strongholds down
Step into the freedom, step into the freedom we've found

Its impossible not to allow His sweet spirit to flow and joy over flow.. His JOY is our strength. Some Churches won't let His Spirit have His way. How much more will our Heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask. 

I have at times went in expecting a Church to be like I want and I have found He the sweet holy Spirit never moves as I expect and its oh so many times by people He chooses. I like a word Church one that allows ALL of the word of God. We went to a Church of God for over 7 years. If you know about Church of God all I will say is it was the good one. We all were holding hands praying one day at Church when I saw this huge grasses field. Oh it was so green and flowing back and forth in the wind. Then out of no where these huge not small but huge gray stones showed up everywhere then it ended. That was that Church. They believed the word just not the gifts. Why go then? My wife loved that Church. Haha one day she said "I had a dream you were dragging me up this hill". I would have preferred carrying and then preferred seeing Him carrying us.  

If we like our Church and its not say moving the way we like then when those doors open be there praying hour before ever service. 

[Vine Abider]

I have a suspicion that when the Lord (in an instant) tears down all the superficial walls dividing us Christians, that we will see that each group has some light we need.  That is, most every Christian group has received light from the Lord regarding this or that.

What if the ekklesia had refused to be divided over the relatively petty things (and I know this is fanciful talk, because division is needed with those in gross error)? Then all the light that various ones got would be contained within the one body.  I know, quasi-utopian thought (i.e., is impossible with man).

But when the Lord makes us one in practice (we are already one in Spirit and reality), then we will have full access to all the truths He has given and will be freely shared and accepted by everyone!

[Neighbor]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:01 AM, Starise said:

Is it better to stay in a place that compromises the truth either knowingly or unknowingly in exchange for all of the things that are good about that congregation, ....

Yes! If led there by God in the first place.

Why? God places us where he does for reason, perhaps it is to eventually see an error within a good local church and to research it out, arrange to talk with  leadership about it. Sometimes pushing on a rope is what we are called to do.

Misc.thoughts: If I found the perfect church how could they accept my fellowship?

And a worker is worth his wage! !!!

My own shepherd/overseer of some 22 years, whom I also worked for 14 years, put in more hours per week every week than most can do at any task vocation or avocation.

His hours per week in just reading the word of God, praying, thinking, and writing exposition of it, simply could not be matched by any lay shepherd whipping up something on a Saturday night to say on Sunday morning. He has shepherded  the flock given  for his guidance for some 42+ years. He deserves a tremendous income, just as any person that sacrifices greatly to accomplish  a goal in a well done fashion deserves excellent compensation and reward.

If and when God wants any of us at another station He will lead us there.

[Marathoner]

@Neighbor has the right of it, my friends. We go where the Lord sends us and as I've learned over time, where we happen to be isn't of any importance. Why? 

We can find fault wherever we go! When He sent me to this city, I found myself in the "war zone" where the majority of violent crime and drug trafficking takes place. Yet this is where Christ planted me, and He gave me productive work serving the needy. The Lord has blessed my time here for even the criminals turn a blind eye to what I do in service to Him. They take no notice of me. 

So, wherever we go, let us remember where we come from... who we are in Jesus Christ... and what He has charged us to do. Nothing else matters!