613 Laws : We Read in the New Testament about Sins that will Keep Us from Heaven : How do those Sins connect to the 613 Laws?

[LiveWire]

 LiveWire said:

6 What shall we say then? 

Are we to continue in sin so that grace may abound? 

2 May it never be!

That covers All 613 Laws 

 

Slibhin said:

Oh, you're mocking me. Gotcha.

 

LiveWire said:

Never!

That Verse has great meaning and literally shares your own views.

 

 

I am new here and have been trying to see from past post history the discussions You generally get involved in.   You are one person who believes in side by side comparison's of unfilled and fulfilled Prophecy.   And that led me to suggest that Christians do hold the majority of Core Values that Ha-Shem seeks and desires for His Own, even from a Yiddish perspective.

I welcome You to challenge me, to search the Word, to find where we connect at still.

You know, this is off track, but the historian and Church Father Jerome discovered an original Copy of Matthew written completely in the Hebrew Language.   Some Messianic Jews, believe the Copy they have, that for 40 years a man devoted his life to uncover, from reading Jerome's notes and wanting to prove it still exists or was recopied, is from those copies.   I don't know, but I do believe Jerome on this because other well known Church Fathers make the same claim.   But, in the majority of the Claims concerning the Hebrew Version of the Gospel of Matthew, most claim, Matthew revealed where Jesus taught portions of the Law to show the Connection the complete meaning of what the LAW-Prophets-Psalms truly mean in connection to the Son of Man, spoken in Daniel.

 

Anyways, I will take the heat.   If anything, it will make me a better Student.

[LiveWire]

Romans 1:

Yet All Are Guilty

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. In unrighteousness they suppress the truth, 19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. 20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made.[d] So people are without excuse— 21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark. [e] 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools. 23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image in the form of mortal man and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things.[f]

24 Therefore God gave them over in the evil desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies with one another. 25 They traded the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to shameful passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for what is against nature. 27 Likewise the men abandoned natural relations with women and were burning with passion toward one another—men committing shameful acts with other men[g] and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to recognize God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what is not fitting. 29 They became filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents. 31 They are foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree—that those who practice such things deserve death—they not only do them but also approve of others who practice the same.

 

A second Version:

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

 

 

Almost every Sin mentioned in these Verses covers multiple meanings of the 613 Laws.   In this category, the Law exists until a change is made.   This is for All Peoples!   

 

What other portions of the Law are still Active Today?

Edited May 10, 2023 by LiveWire

[NConly]

The 613 laws are not the law for New Covenant believers is my understanding.

[com7fy8]

1 hour ago, LiveWire said:

You know, this is off track, but the historian and Church Father Jerome discovered an original Copy of Matthew written completely in the Hebrew Language.   Some Messianic Jews, believe the Copy they have, that for 40 years a man devoted his life to uncover, from reading Jerome's notes and wanting to prove it still exists or was recopied, is from those copies.   I don't know, but I do believe Jerome on this because other well known Church Fathers make the same claim.   But, in the majority of the Claims concerning the Hebrew Version of the Gospel of Matthew, most claim, Matthew revealed where Jesus taught portions of the Law to show the Connection the complete meaning of what the LAW-Prophets-Psalms truly mean in connection to the Son of Man, spoken in Daniel.

For some time, I have believed that certain writings of the New Testament could have first been written in Hebrew. And possibly one or more might have been done first in Aramaic . . . especially if Jesus spoke Aramaic, which I think is understood that He did.

So, in case you mean to ask if the laws of the early scriptures have connection with our New Testament and how we need to live, I would say the early scriptures represent Jesus and how God wants us to become and to love like Jesus. But the Law does not directly name Jesus and does not present how He is our example of how to become and to love. 

However, all the early scripture comes from God Himself who "is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16). And so every scripture is profitable somehow for finding out how to love . . . the way the New Testament and Jesus' example mean.

[farouk]

2 hours ago, NConly said:

The 613 laws are not the law for New Covenant believers is my understanding.

@NConly It's good indeed to remember that while the Scriptures are wonderfully complete and Christ indeed perfectly fulfilled the law, the law was changed (Hebrews 7.12) and what we now have is better - keyword in Hebrews - than the law (Hebrews 7.19).

[LiveWire]

The Jews don't believe Christians read the Tanakh.   But look at Israel's first king, Saul.   How much by reading his life disobeying Ha-Shem have we learned not to do in our own lives?   The same can be said for many people we read in the Tanakh.   The Tanakh is merely the Old Testament.   Everything in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible can be found in the 22/24 Books of the Tanakh.   And the translation is so much clearer from the Hebrew perspective.  After all, it was the Ancient Hebrew People who knew Ha-Shem and met Him.   They are our Guide to many things related to the Holy Word.

 

So indeed, the Tanakh is extremely Vital to the lives of those who Follow God!

 

I mean, even when the Disciples became Apostles, they quoted the Tanakh.   They were all Versed in the Tanakh.   It was Their Guide.   And after meeting Yeshua, They had more depth and meaning to their Tanakh Knowledge.

[teddyv]

From the council of Jerusalem to the early Gentile believers:

"22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

    The apostles and elders, your brothers,

    To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

   24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.  25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell."

Acts 15:22-29

[NConly]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

@NConly It's good indeed to remember that while the Scriptures are wonderfully complete and Christ indeed perfectly fulfilled the law, the law was changed (Hebrews 7.12) and what we now have is better - keyword in Hebrews - than the law (Hebrews 7.19).

Yes you are right. And also these below. We are not required to lived by the Law as was/is Israel.

 Eph 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

[ChristB4us]

4 hours ago, farouk said:

@NConly It's good indeed to remember that while the Scriptures are wonderfully complete and Christ indeed perfectly fulfilled the law, the law was changed (Hebrews 7.12) and what we now have is better - keyword in Hebrews - than the law (Hebrews 7.19).

@LiveWire

The law was not changed but fulfilled as Jesus fulfilled the law.

The sabbath day law is not null and void as it does still exist as a testimony that the Jews still cannot keep the law, but because Jesus Christ is in us and with us always is why we are guiltless.

In Matthew 12:1-8 KJV we find the Pharisees seeking to condemn His disciples for picking ears of corn on the sabbath to eat.

Jesus then refer to 2 incidents in the O.T. where the saints had profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the Temple.

Jesus then says "One greater than the Temple is here", meaning Himself for why His disciples were guiltless.

After salvation, our bodies become the temple of the Holy Spirit per 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.  Per the examination of our faith, Jesus Christ is in us per 2 Corinthians 13:5.

That is why we are not to judge any professing believer per respect of day or holy day or the sabbaths because Jesus Christ in us is able to make us stand.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

[ChristB4us]

8 hours ago, LiveWire said:

 LiveWire said:

6 What shall we say then? 

Are we to continue in sin so that grace may abound? 

2 May it never be!

That covers All 613 Laws 

 

Slibhin said:

Oh, you're mocking me. Gotcha.

 

LiveWire said:

Never!

That Verse has great meaning and literally shares your own views.

 

 

I am new here and have been trying to see from past post history the discussions You generally get involved in.   You are one person who believes in side by side comparison's of unfilled and fulfilled Prophecy.   And that led me to suggest that Christians do hold the majority of Core Values that Ha-Shem seeks and desires for His Own, even from a Yiddish perspective.

I welcome You to challenge me, to search the Word, to find where we connect at still.

You know, this is off track, but the historian and Church Father Jerome discovered an original Copy of Matthew written completely in the Hebrew Language.   Some Messianic Jews, believe the Copy they have, that for 40 years a man devoted his life to uncover, from reading Jerome's notes and wanting to prove it still exists or was recopied, is from those copies.   I don't know, but I do believe Jerome on this because other well known Church Fathers make the same claim.   But, in the majority of the Claims concerning the Hebrew Version of the Gospel of Matthew, most claim, Matthew revealed where Jesus taught portions of the Law to show the Connection the complete meaning of what the LAW-Prophets-Psalms truly mean in connection to the Son of Man, spoken in Daniel.

 

Anyways, I will take the heat.   If anything, it will make me a better Student.

On the sins that keeps us from heaven... here is a counter point verses.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So how can your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven AND YET if you break the least of His commandments and teach others so, you shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven but still in that kingdom of heaven?

Then you look at verse 18 for how Jesus has fulfilled the law by paying the ransom for our sins with His life.

So once that foundation is laid as salvation has been achieved by believing in Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead, what we build on that foundation will be judged as to whether we shall be received as the least in the kingdom of heaven or as the great in the kingdom of heaven.

Those who break His commandments thus not found abiding in Him as His disciples shall be left behind although still saved. Even former believers that were led astra by lies that deny him verbally and get left behind, He still abides in them as they are still saved.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

That is why we are to call even former believers to go to Jesus for help and not just believers living in sin so they too can repent and be ready for the Bridegroom for when He comes as we seek their good in obtaining that eternal glory that comes with our salvation which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House, vessels of gold and silver to sit at the Marriage supper table in Heaven.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

They will die left behind, but their spirits will be with the Lord in heaven to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood and earth to serve the King of kings on earth thus the least in the kingdom of Heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.