Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[JimmyB]

48 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

I have often said I would like to see the first conversation between Eve and Mary. In Genesis 3:16 this is clearly a reference to Jesus and we have the genealogies from Eve to Jesus in what they call the "scarlet thread" or the bloodline. 

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”( Genesis 3:16)

Just as Sarah was a sister and a wife to Abraham. If Eve came from Adam she would be like a sister because they would share the same M-DNA. Unlike nuclear DNA, which comes from both parents, mitochondrial DNA comes only from the mother.

If I remember it is 15 generations from Eve to David and 15 generations from David to Jesus. 

 

I don't see how there could possibly be a conversation between Eve and Mary.  They were separated by many, many generations, and both are long-dead.

I believe what the Bible actually says, not what some interpret it to say. Genesis 3 is about Eve, and Jesus is not Eve's son.  

Genesis 3:8-16 (NRSVue) says (with my emphases), "

They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife [Eve, not Mary] hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” He said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” The man said, “The woman [Eve] whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.” Then the Lord God said to the woman [Eve], “What is this that you have done?” The woman [Eve] said, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate.” 14 The Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this,
    cursed are you among all animals
    and among all wild creatures;
upon your belly you shall go,
    and dust you shall eat
    all the days of your life.
I will put enmity between you and the woman [Eve]
    and between your offspring and hers; [EVE'S]
he will strike your head,
    and you will strike his [Eve's offspring's] heel.”

16 To the woman [Eve] he said,

“I will make your pangs in childbirth exceedingly great;
    in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your [Eve's] husband,
    and he shall rule over you.”

Clearly this is about one woman -- Eve -- and she did not give birth to Jesus.  He is not her offspring, and He was never bitten by a snake!.  It is a misinterpretation to claim that it says anything other than what is written.

Edited June 7, 2023 by JimmyB

[Vine Abider]

Quoted above from Genesis 3 by @JimmyB: he will strike your head, and you will strike his [Eve's offspring's] heel.” 

Therefore:

"You have given him dominion over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet."  Psalm 8:6

"Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it."  1 Cor 12:27

"Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly." Romans 16:20

[JimmyB]

5 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Quoted above from Genesis 3 by @JimmyB: he will strike your head, and you will strike his [Eve's offspring's] heel.” 

Therefore:

"You have given him dominion over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet."  Psalm 8:6

"Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it."  1 Cor 12:27

"Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly." Romans 16:20

Are you serious?  Taking words out of context from three separate "books" from two separate testaments to prove a point? Plus, they have nothing to do with the serpent striking Eve's offspring's heel.

Matthew 5:37, "Let your word be ‘Yes, Yes’ or ‘No, No’; anything more than this comes from the evil one."

 

[Mr. M]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

How did Eve succumb to temptation if she did not have the sin-nature?

The desires of the flesh are not sin-nature without the commandment.

Romans

5:12-14 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned, For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 

7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

I find your statement spot on here:

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Jesus was fully for the Father.

Matthew 12:30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

The point is not to be desire-less (taoism), but to have Godly desires.

Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Quoted above from Genesis 3 by @JimmyB: he will strike your head, and you will strike his [Eve's offspring's] heel.” 

Therefore:

"You have given him dominion over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet."  Psalm 8:6

"Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it."  1 Cor 12:27

"Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly." Romans 16:20

Genesis 3:15 NIV  And I will put enmity
    between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
    and you will strike his heel.”

God is addressing the Serpent...from the context and the way God spoke to the Serpent "there was no emnity between Eve and the Serpent at that time". (Eve got what she wanted from the Serpent, she got the knowledge and one of the first things was to know that they were naked and she knew how to go about it, how to deal with it, to do something that she had never done before to cover herself and she figure out how to keep the fig leafs together...and if the case was so she also figured out which parts of her self to cover...She also understood that she should not stand before God the way she did before and this time she seek to cover herself...

The Serpent gave her the gift of knowledge. 

* Eve must have been very happy she could figure out how to deal with the situations at hand without the instructions from Adam and God...for this reason there was not emnity between her and the Serpent at that time. 

This is why God said that the time will come that there will be emnity between you (the Serpent) and Eve and continue to say between her offspring and your offspring...eventually in due time that will change.  

[Your closest friendnt]

@Vine Abider

Genesis 3:15 NIV And I will put enmity
 *   between you and the woman,
  *  and between your offspring and hers;
*he will crush your head,
    and you will strike his heel.”

"and between her offspring and hers;" 

In this passage God let us know that there will be enmity from the beginning between "the offspring of Eve and the offspring of the Serpent" (not like it was with Eve...friendship came first between her and the Serpent and enmity follow later on)

In their offspring there was no friendship at the beginning of their relationship..there was enmity from the beginning to start with and to finish with...

And both of them must know who they were and what they had to do...they must know that they were the promised offsprings in Genesis 3:15.

And they must know the face off, the battle between the two of them that was ahead of them and what was at stake. 

They must know that they were the two adversaries in Genesis 3:15.

And they knew the scriptures of Genesis 3:15 (and other scriptures about them) 

They knew the last part that said: He (referring) to the offspring of the woman, in singular form and male, and the offspring of the Serpent (also in singular form)

The battle between the two it will be a battle of one versus one...

They also knew the projected face off between the two and the offspring of the woman will try to keep it that way and the offspring of the Serpent has to try to not let it happen that way...not to have his head crushed...or to bruise the heel of the offspring of the woman but not to have his head crushed..that would have been his objective...

The offspring of the woman is identified as he and his (heel) as a male-child. 

So we would need to trace the genealogy of the woman that gives birth to him..the promised offspring, to trace her genealogy to her Father and to Father of her Father all the way to Abraham...and from Abraham all the way to (we cannot say the Father of Eve because God took a rib out of Adam to make Eve at the beginning in the Garden...

Then the Father of Eve was God...suggesting that the Father of promised offspring of the woman will be God...the one who made Eve...that the promise man-child to be born it will be from God...through a woman this time...

Tracing the Father of the  woman who will give birth to the promise male-child from Father to Father will lead us to Shem the Son of Adam and Eve...but the promised was made to the seed of the woman only excluding Adam and that takes us to God who made the woman...suggesting that the promise offspring of the woman would be the Son of God...the new Adam...the second Adam. 

The make-child to be born will be an Adam will come from God and not from Man...

The Face off is between the second Adam who will be born from a woman...the offspring of the woman...no man took part in that...if not he cannot be an Adam born from a woman. 

In Genesis 3:15 the Father of the promise one is not mentioned...it does not say the seed of Adam or of Adam and Eve...the promised one is not an offspring of Adam and Eve but is the offspring of Eve suggesting that no man was the Father of the promised male-child the offspring of the woman...

But he still had a Father because the Life is in the Father. 

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Tracing the Father of the  woman who will give birth to the promise male-child from Father to Father will lead us to Shem the Son of Adam and Eve...but the promised was made to the seed of the woman only excluding Adam and that takes us to God who made the woman...suggesting that the promise offspring of the woman would be the Son of God...the new Adam...the second Adam. 

The make-child to be born will be an Adam will come from God and not from Man...

In speaking of the priesthood of Melchizedek , which was in Abraham's day, like unto the son of God.

 The seed of the woman, the second Adam (Sarah, an allegory, the Jerusalem above our mother, Galatians)

***Made like unto the son of God

Heb 7:3  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 

 

Mt 1:16  And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Lu 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Lu 2:5  To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
One flesh in the espousal.
 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Anne2

[JohnR7]

4 hours ago, JimmyB said:

I don't see how there could possibly be a conversation between Eve and Mary.  They were separated by many, many generations, and both are long-dead.

Everyone is alive in Heaven. If you want to talk to Paul or attend a class he is teaching, that is available for you. You will have the opportunity to talk to Adam and Eve in Heaven.  I have had two dreams about Heaven, but I will not get into that now. 

[Vine Abider]

4 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Are you serious?  Taking words out of context from three separate "books" from two separate testaments to prove a point? Plus, they have nothing to do with the serpent striking Eve's offspring's heel.

Matthew 5:37, "Let your word be ‘Yes, Yes’ or ‘No, No’; anything more than this comes from the evil one."

 

According to Romans 16:20, under whose feet will Satan be crushed by God? (also to @Your closest friendnt)

Edited June 7, 2023 by Vine Abider

[JimmyB]

12 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

According to Romans 16:20, under whose feet will Satan be crushed by God? (also to @Your closest friendnt)

The people in the ancient church at Rome.  In this case, I think that "Satan" is actually the Roman emperor.