Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[Anne2]

2 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

I know this might be a repugnant subject But, Can't we at least put aside that for a moment and examine this subject is in scripture?

A concubine is a wife, without "ketuba" Hagar

A wife with "ketuba" (espoused) is a Covenant wife Sarah.

It concerns the marital covenant, Ketubah. Does scripture speak of differences in wives?

5  And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6  But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.
 

 

 

[JimmyB]

42 minutes ago, George said:

 

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If you say that Adam and Eve already had sin ... then how does ONE man's disobedience make EVERYONE a sinner ... your logic is flawed.  

You have ONE man's sin that was committed because he had FREE WILL ... not because He was sinful.

Be blessed,

George

The sin nature is inherited, since all people are Adam's descendants.  My logic is Biblical.

BTW, it was Eve who sinned first.  Adam's first sin was agreeing to eat the forbidden fruit.

Regarding the sin nature, Paul wrote in Romans 7:15-20, "I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells within me. For I know that the good does not dwell within me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do the good lies close at hand, but not the ability. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells within me."

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Yes.  Adam and Eve had sin from the beginning.  The Bible doesn't specifically say when sin entered Adam and Eve, so one must assume that they had it from the start, prior to the serpent tempting Eve.

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned"  That's the closest I know of to sin's origin.  Since Eve was tempted and she was created from Adam, he must have had sin from the start.

I disagree with the position taken by you for the following reasons. 

God has established Adam and Eve in righteousness by telling them there is no death in you...that they stand in the Life he had given them. 

And he told them the moment you shall eat from the fruit of the forbidden tree you will die...

He said the moment you shall eat from the fruit of that tree you will die...

In that statement God is telling them or he let us know that they were Alive to him and the only way for them to die is when they will eat from the forbidden fruit. 

We may base on that understand that this is the only command God had given them that to disobeyed him will bring death to them...

We may say that God had not given them any other commandment which if disobeyed will give them death...or die if disobeyed. 

The Key words are"the moment you eat from the fruit of the tree " you will die". And so it happened..

Adam and Eve died the moment they ate from the forbidden fruit...

Where can we see what took place at that moment that they both died. 

How it can be seen that what God told them that they will die that very moment. 

It appears from what God told to the Serpent in Genesis 3:15 that both God and the Serpent knew what was included in the statement of God " the moment you eat from the forbidden fruit you will die", and Adam and Eve both died at that moment. 

From Genesis 3:15 both God and the Serpent knew that Adam and Eve had died that moment and they knew the effects of that disobedience which is reflected by what God said to the serpent. 

So at that moment it was not made known what really took place at the moment of their disobedience...by in a little while it will become known to them...God will let them know. 

For that we need to follow what happened next.

God continues to give his fellowship to Adam and Eve and to their children after them...not only Kain and Abel but also Sheth who was born after Abel death and after Kain lost the Inheritance of the first born...or the Inheritance he had from Adam by birth...

We will see how it happens as we follow what is written in Genesis and verified at a latter time. 

God continued to give his fellowship with Adam and with his family Eve and his children...first Kain and then Abel...and Sheth and his children children...the chosen line all the way to Noah...

 Abel was the first one to die and he died a violent death...the first physical death in the family of Adam was of a violent death...not a death due to old age..

In the scriptures Abel was established as a man in good standing towards God...no disobedience was found in him...he had not disobeyed God...or he had obeyed God in anything that he had asked him....so we know...

We have established that at that time Adam and Eve who had disobeyed God in the Garden were in Fellowship with God while they lived, we can say that because they were still alive and God was giving them his fellowship to them out of the Garden and after their disobedience in the Garden...

And we have established that Abel the first man to die had the fellowship of God also while he was alive and he died in full obedience to God..which we found in Abel only and not in Adam and Eve who also had the fellowship of God outside of the Garden and who were not known to have disobeyed God outside the Garden...no at the time Abel died or their after..

After Abel died God is letting us know that Abel is not with him...and he can hear his cries coming from the earth. 

This is how God let us know what was the Inheritance of man after his physical death that man is not gathered to him at the time of his physical death..or at the time of the death of his physical body..when the physical body cannot sustain life and stops functioning when it dies from a various reasons. 

This is what was determined when Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden fruit that death came to them that very moment....that it was determined that even though they continued to have the fellowship of God while they still lived that that will be lost or end at the time of their physical death...that God could only be their God while they lived but not after they died...when someone else will come to take them away from God....the seperation from God at the time of their physical death.

With Cain we find out that because of what he did he lost his fellowship with God before his physical death while he still lived...when he killed his brother Adam. 

His next of kin, his inosent brother Abel without cause..let's say in self defense...

Cain murder Abel....

Abel was the perfect man to die, not only the first man but also a righteou man who had not disobeyed God in any way...and if he could not escape the Inheritance he recieved from birth from Adam...to be separated from God at the time of his physical death...no one else can...Abel was not gathered to God at the time of his physical death...no one else can escape that...the default Inheritance of Adam after his physical death....no one was gathered to God after they die. 

That change with Abraham who was alive to God while he lived and continued to be alive to God after his physical death.. even though Abraham and God Almighty they were not together after Abraham died. God gave Abraham his own place after death for him and his children but that place was in the earth...even for him and his chosen children before the Law was given and then God included the children of the Law to be gathered to Abraham because he codified the Covenant of Cirumcision in the Law of God...under the Law the Covenant of Sinai and under the Covenant of Cirumcision Abraham and Isaac and Jacob the chosen people and the Israelites of the twelve Patriarhs and those adapted by them and the Israelites of the Sinai Covenant and those adapted by them where alive to God while they lived and continued to be alive to God after their death.

Death did not seperated them from God...

God gave them the Sacrifices and the Priesthood and the Temple and their religious yearly Caledar to keep them sanctified to Atone for their sins to stay in fellowship with him....even after they sin...because he gave them the Atonements for the forgiveness of their sins..

Something they did not have in the Covenant of Cirumcision before the Law was given. 

Jesus Christ will change that when God will gather his children to himself in Heaven to be together with him in the name of Jesus Christ the Slained Lamb of God..when God gave Jesus Christ the Heaven as his Inheritance for him and for his children..anyone who believes in him and pass from this life into eternal life with faith in his heart in Jesus Christ who died to make us partakers of his righteousness, meaning the forgiveness of our sins in his blood...by faith alone...in him in Jesus the Christ of God...the Messiah. 

 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

 

@JimmyB

One of the points is that Adam and Eve did not Sin in the Garden and did not sin outside the Garden from what we have in Genesis...from the facts in Genesis...

The first time the word "sin" is mentioned in Genesis is in ch.4 when God said to Cain that Sin was knocking at the door of your heart and you should have fight it off and not give into it...

They were born without sin..the Sin was not in the heart of Abel and Cain and Sheth when they were born because it was not in the heart of Adam...

Cain did not offered the same excuse as Adam did to say why judge me to God when I was born that way. 

God seems to agree with him because everyone had to bear the burden of his own righteousness....in life even though they were under the Inheritance of death at the time of their death which they had inherit from Adam. 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

@JimmyB

One of the points is that Adam and Eve did not Sin in the Garden and did not sin outside the Garden from what we have in Genesis...from the facts in Genesis...

The first time the word "sin" is mentioned in Genesis is in ch.4 when God said to Cain that Sin was knocking at the door of your heart and you should have fight it off and not give into it...

They were born without sin..the Sin was not in the heart of Abel and Cain and Sheth when they were born because it was not in the heart of Adam...

Cain did not offered the same excuse as Adam did to say why judge me to God when I was born that way. 

God seems to agree with him because everyone had to bear the burden of his own righteousness....in life even though they were under the Inheritance of death at the time of their death which they had inherit from Adam. 

 

When they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they sinned.  God gave Adam instructions and he disobeyed his creator.  Sin is regarded in Judaism and Christianity as the deliberate and purposeful violation of the will of God.

[JimmyB]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Both these accounts you cite are before chapter 3, which where the serpent enters the scene and temped Eve and then Adam fell.  No sin (off the mark) with Adam or Eve mentioned prior to that.  So not seeing that they had any sin before the serpent comes in, in chapter 3.

Just because sin isn't specifically mentioned doesn't mean it didn't exist. It is unreasonable to think that the serpent's appearance created sin.  I don't think the serpent created anything, since it is not the Creator.

[JimmyB]

7 hours ago, George said:

So she was born in sin?  Is this what you are implying?

Yes.  Lacking any other explanation, she had a sin nature form the beginning.  BTW, Eve wasn't "born" in the normal meaning of the word.  She had no mother.

[JimmyB]

7 hours ago, George said:

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 

Rom 5:13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 

Rom 5:14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 

Just a Bible passage to clarify. 

Be blessed. 

And Eve was created directly from Adam.

[JimmyB]

7 hours ago, Mr. M said:

 

While there was not yet sin in the world, there was desire!

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

James 1:

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 

15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin,

when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Adam received the commandment and therefore bore the responsibility of obedience.

Desire, at least some of it, is sin.  Clearly, Eve desired to become "wise" (in her own eyes at least), so she sinned.

James 1:13-15, "No one, when tempted, should say, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one. But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; then, when desire has conceived, it engenders sin, and sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death."

Edited June 6, 2023 by JimmyB

[JimmyB]

6 hours ago, George said:

 

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If you say that Adam and Eve already had sin ... then how does ONE man's disobedience make EVERYONE a sinner ... your logic is flawed.  

You have ONE man's sin that was committed because he had FREE WILL ... not because He was sinful.

Be blessed,

George

You should probably discuss that with the apostle Paul, since he wrote it.

Seriously, we are all descended from Adam and so we all have inherited his sin nature.