Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[JimmyB]

6 hours ago, Anne2 said:

I can see this what you are saying, yes. Judaism teaches similarly.

Why would Adam call Eve the mother of all the living? The blessing of the one flesh concerning procreation, was before they sinned. Could it be the blessing of marriage covenant, still stands? 

It was not until Adam ate, that (eyes opened) they knew they were naked.

 

There was no procreation before they sinned.

[JimmyB]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I disagree with the position taken by you for the following reasons. 

God has established Adam and Eve in righteousness by telling them there is no death in you...that they stand in the Life he had given them. 

And he told them the moment you shall eat from the fruit of the forbidden tree you will die...

He said the moment you shall eat from the fruit of that tree you will die...

In that statement God is telling them or he let us know that they were Alive to him and the only way for them to die is when they will eat from the forbidden fruit. 

We may base on that understand that this is the only command God had given them that to disobeyed him will bring death to them...

We may say that God had not given them any other commandment which if disobeyed will give them death...or die if disobeyed. 

The Key words are"the moment you eat from the fruit of the tree " you will die". And so it happened..

Adam and Eve died the moment they ate from the forbidden fruit...

Where can we see what took place at that moment that they both died. 

How it can be seen that what God told them that they will die that very moment. 

It appears from what God told to the Serpent in Genesis 3:15 that both God and the Serpent knew what was included in the statement of God " the moment you eat from the forbidden fruit you will die", and Adam and Eve both died at that moment. 

From Genesis 3:15 both God and the Serpent knew that Adam and Eve had died that moment and they knew the effects of that disobedience which is reflected by what God said to the serpent. 

So at that moment it was not made known what really took place at the moment of their disobedience...by in a little while it will become known to them...God will let them know. 

For that we need to follow what happened next.

God continues to give his fellowship to Adam and Eve and to their children after them...not only Kain and Abel but also Sheth who was born after Abel death and after Kain lost the Inheritance of the first born...or the Inheritance he had from Adam by birth...

We will see how it happens as we follow what is written in Genesis and verified at a latter time. 

God continued to give his fellowship with Adam and with his family Eve and his children...first Kain and then Abel...and Sheth and his children children...the chosen line all the way to Noah...

 Abel was the first one to die and he died a violent death...the first physical death in the family of Adam was of a violent death...not a death due to old age..

In the scriptures Abel was established as a man in good standing towards God...no disobedience was found in him...he had not disobeyed God...or he had obeyed God in anything that he had asked him....so we know...

We have established that at that time Adam and Eve who had disobeyed God in the Garden were in Fellowship with God while they lived, we can say that because they were still alive and God was giving them his fellowship to them out of the Garden and after their disobedience in the Garden...

And we have established that Abel the first man to die had the fellowship of God also while he was alive and he died in full obedience to God..which we found in Abel only and not in Adam and Eve who also had the fellowship of God outside of the Garden and who were not known to have disobeyed God outside the Garden...no at the time Abel died or their after..

After Abel died God is letting us know that Abel is not with him...and he can hear his cries coming from the earth. 

This is how God let us know what was the Inheritance of man after his physical death that man is not gathered to him at the time of his physical death..or at the time of the death of his physical body..when the physical body cannot sustain life and stops functioning when it dies from a various reasons. 

This is what was determined when Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden fruit that death came to them that very moment....that it was determined that even though they continued to have the fellowship of God while they still lived that that will be lost or end at the time of their physical death...that God could only be their God while they lived but not after they died...when someone else will come to take them away from God....the seperation from God at the time of their physical death.

With Cain we find out that because of what he did he lost his fellowship with God before his physical death while he still lived...when he killed his brother Adam. 

His next of kin, his inosent brother Abel without cause..let's say in self defense...

Cain murder Abel....

Abel was the perfect man to die, not only the first man but also a righteou man who had not disobeyed God in any way...and if he could not escape the Inheritance he recieved from birth from Adam...to be separated from God at the time of his physical death...no one else can...Abel was not gathered to God at the time of his physical death...no one else can escape that...the default Inheritance of Adam after his physical death....no one was gathered to God after they die. 

That change with Abraham who was alive to God while he lived and continued to be alive to God after his physical death.. even though Abraham and God Almighty they were not together after Abraham died. God gave Abraham his own place after death for him and his children but that place was in the earth...even for him and his chosen children before the Law was given and then God included the children of the Law to be gathered to Abraham because he codified the Covenant of Cirumcision in the Law of God...under the Law the Covenant of Sinai and under the Covenant of Cirumcision Abraham and Isaac and Jacob the chosen people and the Israelites of the twelve Patriarhs and those adapted by them and the Israelites of the Sinai Covenant and those adapted by them where alive to God while they lived and continued to be alive to God after their death.

Death did not seperated them from God...

God gave them the Sacrifices and the Priesthood and the Temple and their religious yearly Caledar to keep them sanctified to Atone for their sins to stay in fellowship with him....even after they sin...because he gave them the Atonements for the forgiveness of their sins..

Something they did not have in the Covenant of Cirumcision before the Law was given. 

Jesus Christ will change that when God will gather his children to himself in Heaven to be together with him in the name of Jesus Christ the Slained Lamb of God..when God gave Jesus Christ the Heaven as his Inheritance for him and for his children..anyone who believes in him and pass from this life into eternal life with faith in his heart in Jesus Christ who died to make us partakers of his righteousness, meaning the forgiveness of our sins in his blood...by faith alone...in him in Jesus the Christ of God...the Messiah. 

 

 

 

I didn't read all your l-e-n-g-t-h-y post.  However you did write this "in the beginning" (bad pun)... "God has established Adam and Eve in righteousness by telling them there is no death in you."  Where/when did God tell them there was no death in them?

You also wrote that...

"We may base on that understand that this is the only command God had given them that to disobeyed him will bring death to them..."  No Biblical basis.

"We may say that God had not given them any other commandment which if disobeyed will give them death...or die if disobeyed." No Biblical basis.

"Adam and Eve died the moment they ate from the forbidden fruit..." No Biblical basis.  They lived and had children.

[Anne2]

7 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

There was no procreation before they sinned.

He blessed in procreating (multiplying), in their relationship of nature to one another, as one flesh, of male and female.

 

[JimmyB]

Just now, Anne2 said:

He blessed in procreating (multiplying), in their relationship of nature to one another, as one flesh, of male and female.

 

Say what?

[Anne2]

5 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

Say what?

The two, were made one. Her seed was also his seed, as one flesh.

Ge 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Anne2

[JimmyB]

4 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

The two, were made one. Her seed was also his seed, as one flesh.

Ge 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
 

You wrote "The two, were made one. Her seed was also his seed, as one flesh", then quote Scripture that doesn't contain those words (or anything close to them).

[Vine Abider]

35 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

Just because sin isn't specifically mentioned doesn't mean it didn't exist. It is unreasonable to think that the serpent's appearance created sin.  I don't think the serpent created anything, since it is not the Creator.

So the Creator put sin in Adam from the beginning?

[Anne2]

1 minute ago, JimmyB said:

You wrote "The two, were made one. Her seed was also his seed, as one flesh", then quote Scripture that doesn't contain those words (or anything close to them).

I didn't think I would have to quote this?????

 

Mt 19:4  And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5  And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mr 10:8  And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

[JohnR7]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:22 PM, Vine Abider said:

This is regarding how Adam and Eve were a picture of Christ and the church.

This is the only explanation in the Bible for why there is male and female.  We are co-heirs with Christ. Romans 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

[JimmyB]

15 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

So the Creator put sin in Adam from the beginning?

I don't see any other possibility.  More accurately, I think God gave Adam and Eve the ability to sin, i.e., free will.