The Revelation of the Latter Days: The New Jerusalem and The Rapture before the end of year 2028

[JoeCanada]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Do you even read what you reply to? If not then you are wasting time, because I do not have to time to repeat things over and over. No one has set a DATE, you uttered an untruth brother, a Season is not a DATE, when did seasons become dates? 

So, you do not understand what no one knows the DAY nor HOUR means and I am not going to repeat it, go back and read it for yourself. In essence, just like Israel was on the Lunar Moon Cycle or God time, and thus never knew the exact day nor hour that any of their holidays/Festivals etc. would come on. The Rapture is like unto the Feast of Trumps, you will never reply to that point I put forth because it proves the Pre Trib Rapture. And of course your whole thing is LOOK, I know better than them, but you don't, thus if you are in error, and you are, then everything you have learned on Eschatology is also in error on. And THAT FOLKS is why I say over and over if a person can not understand the Pre Trib Rapture, then he has no chance at swaying me on anything to do with Eschatology, some on here see that as crass or crude, its just truth, because if you are wrong on the Pre Trib Raptures TIMING, nothing else will fit, that is why I say that. 

Look at it like this guys, if Danny tells a group of people to meet him at 1o PM to watch Bama play Tennessee play at 11 PM and I now the game starts at 11 AM, then if I can not get him to understand the game REALY....I mean REALY starts at 11, then I am not going to take directions to meet him and Bubbas gas station, at 10 PM because I know..........the game starts at 11 AM, so why would I take his advice on how to get to the meet up place? It's just common sense I am not going to even heed his directions to Bubbas gas station. Its the same here, I just will not pretend that I can heed anything they say on Eschatology & Prophesy, but that means Eschatology only, (probably). On salvation we may agree in full, on the Trinity we may agree in full, etc. etc. etc. So, Eschatology & Prophecy is a totally different Beast altogether, the timings are a MUST, we can not get of coursed on Eschatology else the boat has left us on the shore. So, when I say that I am not being crass, just trying to make people understand, you need to grasp God's Truths or else you are just not going to understand ANYTHING on the end times. 

Paul and John wrote about it very, very clearly, you just can not see what is obvious to me. I do not have time to teach you again, that which you do not want to see. 

Saying it is a "season" (fall 2025) is as good as setting a date. And to say "fall 2025 at the latest" .....well, Rev Man, like I said, we will all be here to hear you when you say "hey, I was just off a bit...it will be no later than spring 2026..... then, oh  summer 2026 at the very latest. Another Harold Camping.

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And of course your whole thing is LOOK, I know better than them

My whole thing????

I believe its you who has said multiple times that you know more than anyone alive  when it comes to eschatology.

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And THAT FOLKS is why I say over and over if a person can not understand the Pre Trib Rapture, then he has no chance at swaying me on anything to do with Eschatology

And THAT FOLKS is it in a nutshell.

Its pretrib or nothing according to you.

You are locked in, wrapped in chains, bolted inside a steel chamber where no-one can get at you to show you scriptures that contradict your belief. You won't listen to any of it. 

And why should I, or we, believe anything you say about the end times?

You are TOTAL pretrib. You are out of here no later than fall 2025. 

So anything after the first couple of chapters in Revelation make no difference to you. You will be gone, according to your belief.

You go at great lengths to explain eschatology to us, who, as you say..."have no clue". You twist things like the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days so that they are backwards. Everything is in "code"......... or "prose"........."flashbacks".....metaphors"

"10 kings don't actually mean 10 kings"

"The seals don't actually do anything....The Seals are METAPHORIC in nature" 

And on and on you go. You talk to us like we are a bunch of imbiciles.

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But Lord, why didn't you tell us, and he will be like, I did, via my Servant Rev Man.

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Good grief.......... 

 

[JoeCanada]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

So you are saying that you haven't done any RE search.

Do you have any proof that the early church fathers taught a pretrib rapture?

Let's say in the first 300 or 400 years after the apostles?

I'm interested.

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

The Day of the Lord comes AFTER the great persecution, NOT BEFORE IT!

Impossible.

Some had thought they had already missed "the Day of the Lord" because they as a church were going through severe trials and persecutions.  So this new church era was taught just before the big time of persecution; the "Day of the Lord" would happen.

The big time of persecution, not lessor ones.  According to Paul, their persecution was a lessor one to one which will be coming.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Saying it is a "season" (fall 2025) is as good as setting a date. And to say "fall 2025 at the latest" .....well, Rev Man, like I said, we will all be here to hear you when you say "hey, I was just off a bit...it will be no later than spring 2026..... then, oh  summer 2026 at the very latest. Another Harold Camping.

You just admitted I am not date setting. Now please allow me to show you why Jesus told us we can know "THE SEASON". In Like 21 he tells us to look to the skies, and that men will what is coming and fear because of the roaring of the seas. In the parable of the fig tree Jesus likens the SIGNS he just gave in Matt. 24:4-31 to being able to tell the SEASON by looking at the trees leaves or buds. But all everyone has in their mind is "WE CAN NOT KNOW THE EXACT DAY NOR HOUR" it seemingly overrides all of our other senses and prophetical understandings in this area, but if people do not understand what Jesus was speaking about, I think you would agree, that would bring confusion, we have to understand these truths Jesus uttered in full, we can't just say "WELL, NO ONE CAN EVER KNOW WHEN Jesus is returning, only the Father knows" !! That is not what that phrase is referring to, elsewhere we see that we should know the season, via all of the clues, via looking to "THE SKIES" etc. 

So, what did Jesus mean by the no one knows Day nor Hour? Well, he as pointing to the 7 Feasts that Jesus must fulfill, and the Jews never knew the exact day nor hour they would fall on because their events were Lunar Moon associated. We know when Christmas falls, when Thanksgiving falls, when Easter falls etc. to the exact second they never knew, their Feast Days always started via the Moon Cycles (God time). So, if God gave us a PREVIEW of all history through the 7 Feasts, and thus Jesus' death (Passover) Jesus' life without sin (Unleavened Bread) and Jesus Christs Resurrection (First-fruits [of the grave] ) all happened at the time of the Spring Feasts, then why wouldn't the FINAL FOUR FEASTS be fulfilled by Jesus also, in like manner? Ever thought about that?

Thus we are now in the Feast of Weeks/Summer Harvest, Jesus is fulfilling the Summer Harvest via us the Church, he is harvesting souls for God, NOTICE: The Summer Harvest is all alone on the calendar unto itself, as is the [Gentile] Church Age. This is now being fulfilled by Jesus, our High Priest in heaven, through us.

Fall Feasts soon to be fulfilled

So, what ended the Summer Harvest? The Feast of Trumps, of course, so now we understand why Paul called it the Last Trump. So, Jesus will end the "Summer Harvest" Church Age  known as the Feast of Weeks by calling the Church home, with a voice that sounds as a Trump (Rev. 4:1 says so). But NO ONE CAN KNOW THE DAY NOR HOUR that this will come to pass on, but why did Jesus say that? Because the Jews never knew the EXACT Day nor Hour that the Feast of Weeks/Summer Harvest (think Church Age) would end on. He thus is telling them, HEY..........I will end the Church Age by calling you home, but only the Father will decide the EXACT Day and Hour, just like only He decides the Times of the Appointed Feasts via the Lunar Moon !! That is all that saying means, he is directing us to observe the patters of the Jewish Feasts to get our clues. 

BUT............Think about this, ITS DEEP. Did the Jews know THE SEASON every year? Of course they did, the knew within two days of when the Feasts of Trumps would come, ALAS.....think further, the Jews could never be more than a month off, because each Moon Cycle is only like 30 or so days, but of course they could tell by looking at the Moon PHASES that a New Moon was coming very, very, very soon !! So, they knew THE SEASON, they just could not know the EXACT Day nor Hour, but that does not mean they were CLULESS as per unto when the Feast of Trumps was coming !! Likewise, we are NOT CLULESS, you and other have just taken the phrase Jesus gave us as a HUGE CLUE and misapllied its overall meaning. Jesus in essence was saying, LOOK AT THE PHASES OF THE MOON, even though only God knows the EXACT Day and Hour you guys should know the approximate time of my arrival, by looking at all the SIGNS.

One sign is Israel had to be REBORN in the end times in order for the 70th week transfer to happen. The Time of the Gentiles must end in order for the 70th week to begin. Another sign is "Like unto the Days of Noah" LOOK AROUND at the perverts. Another sign is all the tools for the Anti-Christ to be able to keep track of every person on earth has to be in place, and they are all in Place Now. But the biggest sign is why Jesus told us to look to the skies. He knew (of course) in these end times we would have so much technology that we would be able to see the INCOMING Rev. 8 Asteroid way before it gets here. We first spotted Apophis in 2004. Don't kid yourself, it is going to hit on April 13, 2029, they did not create a "Space Force" for no reason at all. 

So, since I understand the Pre Trib Rapture angle, I have MORE INFO at my disposal than you do. I understand that the Pre Trib Rapture has to happen at least 3.5 years before this April 13, 2029 asteroid impact event. So, when I minus 3.5 years from tat date I get the FALL of 2025. But why not try to get the EXACT DAY?  Because I understand the EXACT Day nor Hour can be gotten, but I know THE SEASON, as In am supposed to, just as the Jews looking towards the Feasts of Trumps could tell within a day or two that the New Moon Phase would soon be upon them. 

If you are here you will have missed the Rapture, I will not be here

[The Light]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Do you have any proof that the early church fathers taught a pretrib rapture?

Let's say in the first 300 or 400 years after the apostles?

I'm interested.

Many years ago, I ended up in a non Christian forum where they were pushing the validity of evolution. I did lots of research where the evidence pointed to evolution being a made up crock. It just wasn't the truth and I could prove that with the evidence. I believe in doing research so I can not only support what I believe but change what I believe if the evidence says otherwise.

That said, probably a decade plus ago I ran into the John Nelson Darby, yada, yada, yada nonsense so I decided to research it for myself. I guess I grew tired of what I was hearing and wanted to have the facts for myself. I can tell you the John Nelson Darby story is baloney. This nonsense gets passed around like fact. The evidence says it's nonsense. I did not document or keep what I found. I wish I would have. If you are interested in the truth, a little research goes a long way. It's not hard to find. There are books written about the early Church fathers that show what they believed. Remember, it is he that seeks that finds so I think it would be best if you seek first. However, if you want to know the truth and cannot find any evidence, I will find it for you. But I prefer that you seek first.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Impossible.

Some had thought they had already missed "the Day of the Lord" because they as a church were going through severe trials and persecutions.  So this new church era was taught just before the big time of persecution; the "Day of the Lord" would happen.

The big time of persecution, not lessor ones.  According to Paul, their persecution was a lessor one to one which will be coming.

In Christ

Montana Marv

@JoeCanada is correct. The Thessalonians were not afraid they had missed the Day of the Lord. They were afraid that they had missed the gathering PRIOR to the Day of the Lord. 

2 Thes 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

My whole thing????

I believe its you who has said multiple times that you know more than anyone alive  when it comes to eschatology.

It is the only thing that you speak about brother. And I do understand more about the end times than anyone I have ever read, listen to, or have heard preaching. You want me to lie and say I do n kt know it? 

What I will do soon is start a THREAD and I will give all the KEYS at the top so they an be referenced, then I will show what is going to happen and when (as per TIMEFRAMES......not dates). To this day, for 5 years now at least, I am amazed I ever thought Gabriel and the Man in Linen (Jesus) were ever speaking about a "MEAT SACRIFICE" being TAKEN AWAY and that therefore defiling the Temple of God. In other words a DEFLEMENT bein taken away DEFILES the Temple. That is how Men's Traditions push us down wrong paths. That SACRIFICE that is FORBIDDEN is Jesus Worship by a repented Israel. The TIMING TELLLS are the big key, and understanding who the 1335 is (Two-witnesses). That is why me showing in Zech. 13:8-9 that 1/3 of the Jews repent (5 million) and then in the very next verse (Zech. 14:1) we see the DOTL arrives. This shows us Israel repent BEFORE the Anti-Christ conquers Israel at the 1260 middle of the week event. I will lay all of this out with KEYS at the top of the page then decipher it all for the masses. The Prophets Prophesying were doin g s at God's behest, me interpreting that is not me being a braggart, it is me doing what God desires, understanding His truths, HOW? Because I put off the "Men's Traditions" I listen to for 30 plus years. HINT, until we get rid of those old Men's Traditions, we will ever see what God wants to tells us in full, because we have on BLINDERS. 

So, since I have been a voracious reader of all things prophesy for 38 years, and I never had these FACTS until my prayer unto God of "Why Lord do we as a Church not know all these thins you told us you would reveal" and then  I was told by the holy Spirit "Ron, you guys already know everything". THEN...........once I put off Men's Traditions and simply asked God to EXPLAIN or SHOW ME everything, and I did this by not just moving on from "Contradictions" I wrestled with God until I got every answer, but WHY? Because I know in these end times He wants to give them unto us, so WHY NOT? That is why I received the info, I don't care if people get "jealous" that God reveals His End Time Understandings unto me, that is my calling of 38 plus years. Why be jealous? We are small nothings compared to God, we must all learn to submit to His will, then we can  be used as God's vessels in full. If a man has a healing ministry, I am happy, not jealous. It is what it is I guess brother.

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

And THAT FOLKS is it in a nutshell.

Its pretrib or nothing according to you.

Well, no, there are many other ministries right? Salvation, Healing, Feeding the poor and needy. I just will not listen t a person about Eschatology (END TIME EVENTS) when they have the TIMINGS WRONG............Just like I stated I would not take instructions for directions to a meet up place, for a game that starts at 11 AM, if the guy wants me to meet him at 10 PM, it would be fruitless, the game would be over by 10 PM. So, since I know YOUR TIMING is off, how can I heed anything you say when  Eschatology (END TIME EVENTS) is all based on TIMING of end time events? 

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

You go at great lengths to explain eschatology to us, who, as you say..."have no clue". You twist things like the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days so that they are backwards. Everything is in "code"......... or "prose"........."flashbacks".....metaphors"

"10 kings don't actually mean 10 kings"

"The seals don't actually do anything....The Seals are METAPHORIC in nature" 

Here is the difference in me an you it seems, I do not get LOCKED INTO understandings by men's traditions. I am 100 percent correct on all these things, YOU WILL SEE SOON. The 1260, 1290 and 1335 should not be as hard to understand, but Men's Traditions keeps you from seeing the obvious. 

So, you can see the 10 Virgin Brides means ALL Christendom, and that the 10 Commandments are a stand in for ALL the laws of God but you can't see that the 10 Kings means COMPLETE Europe Reunited? I wonder why? Men's Traditions strikes again. You neve win a debate with me, so I guess it frustrates you. You then get perturbed and report things, which never made any sense to me tbh. That is why I explained above WHY I say I do not listen to what non pre tribbers say about Eschatology. If the TIMING is off, that therefore mandates all of the END TIME EVENTS will be off. Its just that simple, that has zero to do with Salvational Issues etc. So, why let my point there get you upset? 

I will do that thread one day and I will not post it until it is a very concise and easy to understand thread. I see great end time Prophecy guys saying things they are WAY OFF on, but its just the Deeper Stuff that no one seems to get, but should, but Men's Traditions hamper us. 

God Bless. 

[WilliamL]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:49 PM, The Light said:

The problem with this assumption is that Jesus is talking to the Church's in Revelation 3. He says he is coming quickly and don't let anyone take your crown. The fact that the 24 elders have crowns show that Jesus has returned. This is further supported by the kings and priests before the thrown in Revelation 5 which is the Church. 

But returned which time? Remember, he already returned once after his resurrection. Saints arose from the dead shortly thereafter, the ones formerly in Hades whom Hades' gates could not prevail against to keep them there.

These are the ones -- resurrected OT saints -- whom I believe are the those with crowns in Rev. 4-5. There is no real scriptural evidence to support that they arose in some pre-trib rapture: this is just presumed by many people who use circular reasoning.

[seeking the lost]

20 hours ago, The Light said:

You said the first resurrection happens at the END OF THE TRIBULAITON. The verses you are quoting happen at the END OF GODS WRATH.

Do you not understand that the first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous.

I know that you do not believe in the pretrib rapture and therefore think it is acceptable to eliminate the dead in Christ rising when Jesus comes before the seals are opened. This is the barley harvest. So you can pretend that there is no barley harvest.

But what do you do with the second harvest of the fig tree. Do you pretend that Daniel 12 is not there. Daniel 12 happens when the great tribulation occurs. The is at the fifth seal. 

Daniel 12

 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

There is war in heaven. Michael and his angels prevail and Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven.

Revelation 12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

We see that event in Olivet Discourse.

Mark 13

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

This happens at the 6th seal

Revelation 6

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

So the verses that you quote happen AFTER THE WRATH OF GOD, which is AFTER the 7th seal is opened. Daniel 12 happens at the 6th seal.

So what do you do with the resurrection that happens at the 6th seal? Do you pretend it's not there or are you unaware of this resurrection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

'

I just have a simple view that is formed with fear of the Lord.  I take seriously the warning not to add to The book.  I do find it interesting that you find so many resurrections and raptures.  Do all of these resurrections have raptures?

The words of Jesus have some influence on my understanding.  John 6: 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.  The last day fits the resurrection listed as the rest of the dead.  I find this definition in 2 Peter 3: 

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.  Tell me this is not the last day.

Jesus taught that the tares are taken out first.

The unrighteous are wiped out first.  Malichi 4: 1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

It's not that i don't believe in a pretribulation rapture I just do not believe in a pre-resurrection rapture.

[seeking the lost]

20 hours ago, The Light said:

Do you not understand that the first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous.

The first resurrection is defined by time, content, and purpose.  The time is at the beginning of the thousand years.  The content is not all righteous but limited to those described in the text of Rev. 20.  The purpose is to reign with Christ upon the earth.  (They do not go up as if they missed the earth and had to come back down)

Rev.20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Just two resurrections. First of those that were beheaded (I do not want to add to that description, only those listed).  The second resurrection is The rest of the dead.  This includes righteous and unrighteous from Adam To the end of the Millenium.  Then they are separated sheep on the right and goats on the left.

Matt. 25: 

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.