There are 2 separate tribulations, the first is to the Jew

[Anne2]

13 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Far as I understand Jesus warned all the cities of Israel that it will be more tolerable for Sodom in the day of judgement that for the cities in Israel.

He even said it will be more tolerable for cities located in Lebanon than for cities in Israel on judgement day.

 

So you believe judgement day was in 70 ad as well,?

And Jesus came to the Jew's, not Gentiles. Plus, his disciples were continuing in the baptism of John, during his whole ministery. John's baptism was for remission of sin, to escape God's coming wrath. 

1 ¶  When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2  (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Anne2

[LiveWire]

Is this a 70 AD Destruction Temple/Jerusalem precursor to future Destruction on a worldwide scale, Thread?

[Shilohsfoal]

19 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

And Jesus came to the Jew's, not Gentiles. Plus, his disciples were continuing in the baptism of John, during his whole ministery. John's baptism was for remission of sin, to escape God's coming wrath. 

1 ¶  When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2  (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
 

I'm not sure what you trying to say.Are you trying to say the Jews will not recieve wrath?

If that is the case then why are they gnashing their teeth?

 

Mathew 8:11-13

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Edited June 17, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Anne2]

3 minutes ago, LiveWire said:

Is this a 70 AD Destruction Temple/Jerusalem precursor to future Destruction on a worldwide scale, Thread?

Is it?  I am amillenialist, I don't know what others are in here does it matter?

[Anne2]

1 minute ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I'm not sure what you trying to say.Are you trying to say the Jews will not recieve wrath?

If that is the case then why are they gnashing their teeth?

 

Mathew 8:11-13

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

I believe the wrath John preached was coming already happened.

[Shilohsfoal]

Just now, Anne2 said:

I believe the wrath John preached was coming already happened.

Then why are the jews gnashing their teeth when Abraham Issac and Jacob are resurected?

 

Mathew 8:11-13

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

[Anne2]

4 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Then why are the jews gnashing their teeth when Abraham Issac and Jacob are resurected?

 

Mathew 8:11-13

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

I think that is when the nations are going to be plagued, The law appears to say Israel will suffer wrath for breaking the covenan/law. Then when God is finished, he is going to equally judge the nations for how they treated Israel.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Anne2

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, Anne2 said:

I think that is when the nations are going to cursed. The law appears to say Israel will suffer wrath for breaking the covenan/law. Then when God is finished, he is going to equally judge the nations for how they treated Israel.

Yet Jesus said it would be more tolerable for the cities outside Israel than the cities inside Israel on judgement day.

These cities in Israel and Lebanon are relatively close to one another but it will be more tolerable for Lebanon than for Israel.

Mathew 11

²⁰ Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

²¹ Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

²² But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

²³ And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

²⁴ But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

[truth7t7]

On 6/15/2023 at 8:16 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

Many speak of the tribulation to come, and there is in fact a Great Tribulation to come upon the entire world by way of God’s wrath being poured out on the inhabitants of the world.
But many do not understand that there are actually 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture.

In Romans 2:9 we read; "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile."

In this we see the mention of 2 different tribulation periods determined, with the first one which pertained to the Jews, and the last one, which is to be upon all the Nations of the entire Gentile world. 

This first tribulation to the Jews was announced to begin by Jesus right after the abomination of desolation and destruction of the Temple mount in Jerusalem occurred in 70 ad. (Luke 21:20-24)

This is referred to in scripture as the tribulation of “those days” which was determined to run “many days” (Daniel 11:33) even all the way to "the fullness of the Gentiles", which I believe is marked by the 6th seal events. 

Then at the point of the 6th seal being loosed, this would begin the time of trouble such as the world has never seen, (Daniel 12:1); or the wrath of the Lamb/God beginning to be poured out on the Gentile Nations. (Rev. 6:17)

Many confuse these 2 separate events as one single short tribulation event, but a careful study of scripture will show these 2 events are indeed shown as separate in time.

Also I would like to add there is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation, that is just the doctrines of men, as a 7 year tribulation is not mentioned anywhere in scripture, neither is a "pre-tribulation rapture."

So in a nut shell you have the begin point of the tribulation of “those days” (days of vengeance and wrath upon the Jews) starting at 70 ad. as Jesus said and then running-------------->>>all the way to “after the tribulations of those days” confirmed by the 6th seal signs in scripture (sun, moon, stars) And then the beginning of God’s wrath being poured out on the entire Gentile world, or a time of trouble such as the world has never seen. All these things can be confirmed by a careful study of scripture.

The first tribulation period to the Jews was announced by Jesus and would start right after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. Luke confirms the start point in Luke 21:20-22“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into.22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” 

Also in John 12:31 Jesus said; "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
 

This event would take place after Christ was crucified, as seen with the man child Jesus being caught to God in Revelation 12:5. Also at this point in time the red Dragon, or the Devil would persecute the woman (spiritual Israel) after he was cast down unto the earth as seen in Revelation 12:13.

Many try to place all these events future forward concerning the last days, but these events were set into motion long ago with the judgment announced by Jesus.

The end of this first tribulation period for the Jews is shown in Matthew 24:29 with the words "after the tribulation of those days." If you notice in Matthew 24:29 there is a pause after verse 28. Then Jesus says; "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." =(6th seal sign)

Compare to Mark 13:24 were we see the same pause in the verse, and notice the description. Mark 13:24;"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."

This sounds just like what the Matthew account has said; but it is the testimony in Luke that shall confirm the end point of this first tribulation period for the Jews, referring to “after those days.”

In Luke 21:25 we see the same pause in the verse, and the same signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. But if you will notice the verse before it we are shown when this first tribulation of those days would end, and then the signs in the heavens would begin. 

Luke 21:24;"And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

This prophecy in Luke 21:24 was shown in Daniel 11:33 “And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.”

Notice “many days” does not suggest a short 3 and a half year, 42 month, or 7 year tribulation period for the Jews. History also confirms this, the Jews have been scattered to the nations and have suffered persecution ever since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d.

When you are given understanding you will come to conclude that the time of 42 months is symbolic of time when you put all the pieces together comparing all scriptures on this matter.

This fullness of time of the Gentiles is the key to putting this time frame in its proper order of events.

In Revelation 11:2 we see this time period mentioned to John. Revelation 11:2;"But the court that is without the Temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 

I believe what throws most people off in this verse is the mention of 42 months, and discerning that time to be a literal 3 and half years. But this time, like most of the symbolisms in book of Revelation should not be taken at face value, but is rather spiritually discerned.

To prove this point, in scripture we see the millennium or thousand year reign of Christ is shown as "a season and a time" in Daniel 7:12. So if "a season and a time" is shown as "a thousand years", then a time, times and half a time would suggest an even longer period of time; not a short period of time like a short 42 month period. Scriptures also confirm this is cannot be the case as shown in Daniel 12:11-13.


I believe the 6th seal signs confirms the fullness of the Gentile age, but also begins the Great tribulation and wrath of the Lamb upon the entire world, or the time of God’s wrath and the day of vengeance as written. Isaiah 63:4 “For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.”

The start time of the Gentiles ingathering period began at Pentecost (7x7 days) right after Christ was crucified, and with the start of the New Covenant period to all Nations.

This start of the Gentile period is shown in the law as the "new meat offering" after the 7x7 days is complete. This treading down of the holy city (God’s people also shown as the “holy city”) also started long ago in 70 a.d., and has been ongoing ever since, and will continue till the time of the end.

This time of the Gentiles was also symbolized by a 42 month period, but it is only a sign of time. This sign of time is also shown to us in Matthew 1:17 with the 3 separate 14 generations periods, or 42 total generations leading up to the birth of Jesus. ( the law and prophets prophesied during these 42 generations)

This sign of time of 42 months can also be symbolically shown like the 7 priests first circling Jericho for 6 days, or 7x6=42. During these 42 generations leading up to Jesus’ birth the law and prophets prophesied as Jesus said in Matthew 11:13 Just as God’s 2 witnesses (Word and Spirit) were also forecast to prophesy for 42 months in all his saints in Revelation 11:3.
 

Keep in mind the Lord refers to his saints as the “holy city” and as “Jerusalem” in scripture.

Paul also spoke of this fullness of time for the Gentiles here in Romans 11:25;“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Romans 11:26;“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

This removal of blindness and ungodliness from Jacob "after the tribulation of those days" is confirmed here in Jeremiah 31:33“But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

This is the point in time of deliverance for God’s saints from the time of trouble that comes after ‘those days” is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Notice, the first “days of vengeance” Jesus proclaimed upon the Jews, starting with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad; is not the same time as is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 because the Jews were not delivered from that period of persecution, which scripture and history confirms lasted “many days” as is written.

But this time of persecution is symbolically shown as, time, times and a half, or symbolically 42 
months, or 1260 days.

But the “time of trouble” shown in Daniel 12:1-2 is speaking of a time of deliverance for God’s people and also shows the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which is after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

So this we know by scripture, and also by history, that these 2 separate tribulation events cannot be the same.

Peace and God bless

Luke 21 speaks of a future AOD and Great Tribulation, and the Church that will be present on earth will be eyewitnesses of these future events and second coming of Jesus in the heavens 

[Anne2]

1 minute ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Yet Jesus said it would be more tolerable for the cities outside Israel than the cities inside Israel on judgement day.

These cities in Israel and Lebanon are relatively close to one another but it will be more tolerable for Lebanon than for Israel.

Mathew 11

²⁰ Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

²¹ Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

²² But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

²³ And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

²⁴ But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

I think, it will be all the ungodly when we sit at the table with Abraham, not just Gentiles, but both jew's as well.

Or even If that is not right. 

Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad. Then later, there was the bar kochba revolt as well. He was proclaimed messiah, coins were minted by the Jewish Sanhedrin that was moved by that time, to Yavneh?