There are 2 separate tribulations, the first is to the Jew

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, Anne2 said:

How did this fulfill the Abrahamic covenant? And which one?

 

It was still a divided kingdom then? Seems it was still so in Christs day. 

Father of many nations, exceedingly fruitful, establish His covenant, Be a God unto thee and seed after thee, Sands of the sea, stars of the sky, dust of the earth, all nations blessed, will become a great nation and a company of nations ect.


BY the time Jesus was born BOTH of the Houses had gone into captivity and there was no more Israel as a nation, the CURSES of 7 times had begun a couple hundred years before.  BUT the DANIEL prophecy with the rebuilding of the temple had taken place starting with  Cyrus sent out the decree to rebuild....

dates APPROX

1400 years BEFORE CHRIST Moses dies but everyone else goes into the promise land,
1000BC Saul 1st earthly king 
930BC kingdom divided into the 2 houses 
850BC the 10 Northern tribes one by one go into Assyrian captivity,
by around 585 Jerusalem falls to the Babylonians.  

2BC - 2AD  Jesus is born

29 - 33 Jesus dies


Not sure how close I got but I think it shows the basic picture

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I already told you, but you do not believe or understand.
 

Jesus is the one who brought in the New Covenant, which He confirmed “in” all his apostles and disciples in that final week of that prophecy.  It is not a one week covenant, that is your spin and confusion.

MY SPIN??  and MY CONFUSION???  

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[FJK]

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

What are you getting at with all these questions? We believe the Torah was given to Moses by G-d.

Just things I've wondered about.  Things I'm actually interested in knowing.

Does that mean that the Torah ended with Moses and none of it was written after his passing?

Maybe I'm not understanding exactly what the Torah is and what is in it from the Jewish point of view. I figure a Jew is more qualified to talk about this than a non Jew of any kind would be.

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

The destruction of the Temple 40 years later has nothing to do with 70 week prophecy, or the New Everlasting Covenant that Jesus made with His people.  Trying to equate the two is your confusion in understanding what is written.

wow, 
 

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

THAT WOULD BE THE NEW COVENANT BROUGHT FORTH 

THAT I AGREE,

LASTS WAY LONGER THAN THE COVENANT THAT IS MADE WITH MANY FOR A WEEK, 


and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

that is the DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE




and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, tatwo said:

Greetings DeighAnn

So you are saying that prior and up to the scourge and crucifixion yielded the death of the Christ…the day He died…that the cursed and desolate nation of Israel…who murdered their promised Son…was sharing the “Gospel” throughout the world? 

Fat chance on many fronts…namely up to that point…by the time He died…“His death”…the Holy Spirit had not been poured out. If what you propose is actually true concerning these largely rebellious tribes who were “sent into desolation”…theirs was a message about the law of sin and death which they did not respect as a nation.

Tatwo...:)

NOT till the HEARD His voice and followed Him.  UP until that point they were THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.  They were NO WHERE NEAR JERUSALEM by the time Christ brought forth the NEW COVENANT


I am saying that THE NATION OF ISRAEL the Northern and Southern tribes but the multitude of their sins fell under the punishment.  FIRST the Northern tribes went into the ASSYRIAN captivity.  WHEN they were let go THEY LEFT THE AREA and were scattered to the world

Couple hundred years later SAME FATE FELL upon the Southern kingdom and they went into BABYLONIAN captivity.  

500 years LATER CHRIST was born.  

That means that for a few HUNDRED years before HE was born THE TEN TRIBES of the NORTH had gone out to inhabit the whole world and FULFILL the BIRTHRIGHT AND THE BLESSINGS and the promises of GOD.  

SO 

for hundreds of years the PEOPLE OF GOD not remembering they were the people of GOD go FORTH into the world

hundreds of years later COMES THE GOOD NEWS. 

THOSE who receive the good news START TAKING IT OUT INTO THE REST OF THE WORLD.  

Who is MULTIPLYING LIKE THE SANDS of the sea, stars of the sky, dust of the earth????  THAT would be the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL

Who exactly do you think the CHRISTIANS are?   Who did Jesus say HE CAME FOR?  The lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL.  Didn't say 'lost sheep of the House of JUDAH' did He?  

Do you think the HEATHEN were multiplying at the SAME RATE as those under the promises of GOD?  

Have you ever gone and BACK DATED any of the 'countries' from around the world from the time they became a country minus 'the 7 times punishment'?  QUITE interesting what you can find, their MIGRATIONS are very telling.  


AS FOR WHO 'MURDERED CHRIST' that wouldn't be ROME because those in CHARGE didn't FIND HIM GUILTY and they washed their hands of His BLOOD. 
 
It was the CHIEF PRIEST, the Pharisees and Sadduccees, the GENERATION OF VIPERS, OF THIER FATHER THE DEVIL, THOSE WHO HAD NEVER BEEN IN BONDAGE TO ANY MAN....

The FULFILLMENT of the FIRST PROPHECY

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I believe THAT PROVES what you call 'FAT CHANCE' TO actually be Truth.  

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, tatwo said:

again huge change is in view here. 

Sins went from being forgiven by RITUAL and ANIMAL Sacrifice in a building

to in the hearts and minds of the person through FAITH AND PRAYER.  Went from being A BLOODLINE NATION to anyone of all nations.  STILL JUST PEOPLE choosing LIFE over death.  



 

 

7 hours ago, tatwo said:

What a completely juvenile statement DeighAnn…disappointing to say the least. What in tarnation are you even writing???

Obviously NOT what you are reading.  Take YOUR preconceived notions out of WHAT I am writing and QUIT looking to CORRECT them to YOUR BELIEFS and you then you might see.  

WHY was the NEW COVENANT brought forth?  BECAUSE under the LAW, Gods people were GOING TO HELL because of UNFORGIVEN SIN.  

Didn't MATTER if they had been NEARLY PERFECT all their lives but ONLY AT THE MOMENT OF DEATH did it matter as to going to heaven or hell. 

ONE SIN or many and you had to go pay THE PENALTY OF sin, DEATH.  

GOD didn't like HIS PEOPLE going to HELL for A SIN.  

NEW COVENANT being 'under grace' HAVING received THE GIFT of Salvation now UNDER THE BLOOD of the LAMB SLAIN 

A SIN which would have caused you to go pay THE PENALTY UNDER THE LAW

NO LONGER had that SAME EFFECT but now at death washed clean, the penalty already paid  

the GIFT OF SALVATION.  


 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, tatwo said:

The ancient nation of “natural” Israel was sent packing by the Messiah they rejected and murdered…their house was left to them “desolate” meaning…”deserted, lonely, waste, wilderness, solitary, destitute of a husband, unmarried, a flock deserted by the shepherd, woman neglected by her husband, from whom the husband withholds himself, a place where God is not worshipped.”

It's that VERY LACK of understanding that causes the JEWISH PEOPLE of today so many problems and SHOULD MAKE the MANY CHRISTIANS who believe it VERY EMBARASSED.  

SO I AM GOING TO WRITE IT AGAIN in hopes that YOU NEVER FORGET

WHO KILLED CHRIST?  First off SATAN POSSESSED JUDAH and went to BETRAY HIM. 

THAT should have been a hint NO ONE MISSED especially because of the   

FIRST PROPHECY that tells US EXACTLY WHO WILL BE RESPONSIBLE


 

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.




JESUS HIMSELF TELLS US EXACTLY WHO THEY ARE AND WHO THEIR FATHER IS

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


WHEAT AND THE TARES.  GOOD AND EVIL. THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. 

Do not be deceived by any man...by their FRUIT you shall know them...


 

AND in case NONE OF THAT IS CLEAR ENOUGH

 

8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


and IN CASE IT WAS missed there
 

7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, tatwo said:

The keepers of the Law as you write…have rejected Christ so that they can “keep their Law”…keeping the Law of Moses is the definition of rejecting Christ…”For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.” We are to look upon the “lesser” [Law] in the light of the “greater” [Yahshua] when that which is greater arrives. 

Whosoever rejects the “only One” to fulfill Gods righteous requirement of the Law…is condemned via that same Law…which they themselves can never fulfill.

Wake up you people and stop worshipping Israel and the Jews…from any age...the only ones coming out of a place with the name "Israel" at the end of this age is Christ…the rest worship mystery Babylon the mother of harlots…do not be deceived.

No one comes to God except through Christ...

Tatwo...:)

 

WHAT PART OF THEY ARE BLINDED FOR OUR SAKE DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?  WHAT PART OF BEING UNDER THE UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE IS HARD TO COMPREHEND?  WHAT ABOUT BEING MORE GLORIOUS WHEN THE NATURAL BRANCHES ARE GRAFTED BACK IN????  

 

MATT 5

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

HAVEN'T YOU NOTICED?  WE BECOME MORE RESPONSIBLE TO THE LAW THAN THE JEWISH WHO KEEP THE LAW. 

WHAT they CAN'T DO PHYSICALLY

 WE CAN'T EVEN THINK OR FEEL.   






Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

 

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11For there is no respect of persons with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:



and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;


13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

[Michael37]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:16 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

In Romans 2:9 we read; "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile."

It's an idiom, repeated again in the next verse, having previously been used in Chapter One.

Rom 2:10  but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, first for the Jew, then for the Greek.

Rom 1:16  I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek.

It reflects the order in which the Abrahamic Covenant is fulfilled.

Gal 3:7-9  Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham.  (8)  The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”  (9)  So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

[Stewardofthemystery]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

LASTS WAY LONGER THAN THE COVENANT THAT IS MADE WITH MANY FOR A WEEK, 

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

that is the DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE

 

That is your spin.  It does not say the Covenant “only lasts one week.”It says the Prince (Messiah,)confirms the Covenant with many in the last week of the 70 week prophecy.

The last 7 of that 70 week prophecy is when Jesus brought in the New Covenant.  Jesus was crucified in the middle of that last 7 years, bringing in the Everlasting Covenant.

That 70 week prophecy ended 3 and half years later after Jesus was crucified.  So it had nothing to do with the Destruction of the Temple which happened almost 40 years later.

The reason you and others try to spin that verse about a “one week covenant”is because you don’t believe that the last 7 is fulfilled, and you also believe Satan is going to make “a covenant”with Israel in the future, where Antichrist sits in a future imaginary temple.

I’ve heard it all before, it is false doctrine.