There are 2 separate tribulations, the first is to the Jew

[Stewardofthemystery]

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Luke 21 speaks of a future AOD and Great Tribulation, and the Church that will be present on earth will be eyewitnesses of these future events and second coming of Jesus in the heavens 

The apostles asked about the signs that would precede the destruction of the Temple and surrounding buildings they were LOOKING AT WITH THIER OWN EYES.

 

Luke 21:5-6

 

King James Version

 

 

⁵ And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

⁶ As for these things which ye behold,the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

[Anne2]

15 hours ago, LiveWire said:

No, I mean, is the idea behind 2 Tribulations being 1 was 70 AD and the 2nd will be worldwide.   Is this saying Matthew 24 speaks of 2 Tribulations?

How I look at these things.

Not saying I am correct just explaining. I tend to look at the law of Moses and what it says about Judgment and punishment there. Those are prophesies of Moses.

Tending towards taking this verse literally.

Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

The law, like the prophets, are equally prophetic utterances. Furthermore, it would apply to the prophetic books. While the prophets can speaking about prophetic events, that are apart from the law, but for Israel in the time of the Gospels, it certainly was those of the law, as Jew's are judged by it (until John), but Gentiles apart from it. Am I making any sense to you? Jew's are subject to the law, of Moses, whole law. Gentiles are not, but are judged apart from it. Certainly the prophets did not prophesy anything any different than Moses, when speaking of Israels judgement (until john). But in speaking of prophetic judgements on thing apart from the law, they could, and I believe did

Jew's baptism before Christ, Gentiles after.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Anne2

[LiveWire]

15 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

From the OP….

 

This first tribulation to the Jews was announced to begin by Jesus right after the abomination of desolation and destruction of the Temple mount in Jerusalem occurred in 70 ad. (Luke 21:20-24)

This is referred to in scripture as the tribulation of “those days” which was determined to run “many days” (Daniel 11:33) even all the way to "the fullness of the Gentiles", which I believe is marked by the 6th seal events. 

Then at the point of the 6th seal being loosed, this would begin the time of trouble such as the world has never seen, (Daniel 12:1); or the wrath of the Lamb/God beginning to be poured out on the Gentile Nations. (Rev. 6:17)

I agree that 2 different and separate tribulation Events are mentioned in Matthew 24.

[LiveWire]

5 hours ago, Anne2 said:

How I look at these things.

Not saying I am correct just explaining. I tend to look at the law of Moses and what it says about Judgment and punishment there. Those are prophesies of Moses.

Tending towards taking this verse literally.

Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

The law, like the prophets, are equally prophetic utterances. Furthermore, it would apply to the prophetic books. While the prophets can speaking about prophetic events, that are apart from the law, but for Israel in the time of the Gospels, it certainly was those of the law, as Jew's are judged by it (until John), but Gentiles apart from it. Am I making any sense to you? Jew's are subject to the law, of Moses, whole law. Gentiles are not, but are judged apart from it. Certainly the prophets did not prophesy anything any different than Moses, when speaking of Israels judgement (until john). But in speaking of prophetic judgements on thing apart from the law, they could, and I believe did

Jew's baptism before Christ, Gentiles after.

If you are saying, there's 2 tribulation Events mentioned in Matthew 24, and the first in 70 AD ended the use of the Law through Sacrifice and left Jesus as only option.   Yep, I agree.

[Anne2]

2 hours ago, LiveWire said:

If you are saying, there's 2 tribulation Events mentioned in Matthew 24, and the first in 70 AD ended the use of the Law through Sacrifice and left Jesus as only option.   Yep, I agree.

I believe the law ended accorcing to the carnal commands. It is the fulillment of the promise concerning the gentiles as seed. All all that the prophets have spoken will be fufilled.

[LiveWire]

13 hours ago, Anne2 said:

I believe the law ended accorcing to the carnal commands. It is the fulillment of the promise concerning the gentiles as seed. All all that the prophets have spoken will be fufilled.

Do you think God had anything to do with the 70 AD Temple destruction?

It stopped Jews from being able to sacrifice for sins.

 

[Anne2]

1 minute ago, LiveWire said:

Do you think God had anything to do with the 70 AD Temple destruction?

It stopped Jews from being able to sacrifice for sins.

 

Oh, yes. And the barkochba revolt as well. I do not know if you are aware of the messianic person of 70 ad. People in the church do not seem to talk about it. One Simon ben Giora. Look him up. 

The thing I keep in mind, when it comes to when you see him standing where he ought not, and proclaiming himself to be this or that. Many seem to never consider what Jesus said concerning Ceasar's image as well as it's super inscription on his coins. this is a proclamation of himself, who he is, etc.

1923 ἐπιγραφή epigraphe ep-ig-raf-ay’

from 1924; n f;

AV-superscription 5; 5

1) an inscription, title
1a) in the NT of an inscription in black letters upon a whitened tablet
1b) of the inscription on a coin 

Mt 12:16  And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.
17  And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

Both times, Simon ben Giora and bar kochkba coins were minted. Minting of coins is by a ruling authority to do so.

Especially bar kochba =son of a star. According to the star prophesy, by the head of the Sanhedrin that had been moved to Yavenh, by the authority of Rome to rule from there.

Nu 24:17  I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite Look up his coin and super inscriptions.

His star sits above the temple, which is open where you can see the ark of the covenant within. 

Does the temple need to be rebuilt to see that? Does he need to literally be standing and proclaiming orally with his mouth? Or can we see him on a coin, and his proclamation upon it? And the authority of the ruling government by whose approval these things were so?

Just for consideration

[LiveWire]

21 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Oh, yes. And the barkochba revolt as well. I do not know if you are aware of the messianic person of 70 ad. People in the church do not seem to talk about it. One Simon ben Giora. Look him up. 

The thing I keep in mind, when it comes to when you see him standing where he ought not, and proclaiming himself to be this or that. Many seem to never consider what Jesus said concerning Ceasar's image as well as it's super inscription on his coins. this is a proclamation of himself, who he is, etc.

1923 ἐπιγραφή epigraphe ep-ig-raf-ay’

from 1924; n f;

AV-superscription 5; 5

1) an inscription, title
1a) in the NT of an inscription in black letters upon a whitened tablet
1b) of the inscription on a coin 

Mt 12:16  And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.
17  And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

Both times, Simon ben Giora and bar kochkba coins were minted. Minting of coins is by a ruling authority to do so.

Especially bar kochba =son of a star. According to the star prophesy, by the head of the Sanhedrin that had been moved to Yavenh, by the authority of Rome to rule from there.

Nu 24:17  I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite Look up his coin and super inscriptions.

His star sits above the temple, which is open where you can see the ark of the covenant within. 

Does the temple need to be rebuilt to see that? Does he need to literally be standing and proclaiming orally with his mouth? Or can we see him on a coin, and his proclamation upon it? And the authority of the ruling government by whose approval these things were so?

Just for consideration

It would appear that you would connect the first portion of Matthew 24 to 70 AD.

I would then think that means you believe in a future world wide great tribulation?

That would mean you agree to Matthew 24 speaks of 2 separate tribulations?

[Anne2]

42 minutes ago, LiveWire said:

It would appear that you would connect the first portion of Matthew 24 to 70 AD.

I would then think that means you believe in a future world wide great tribulation?

That would mean you agree to Matthew 24 speaks of 2 separate tribulations?

I do not know. I do think it is possible that the first and second beasts are part of the above. I tend to focus what has happened, and leave the future to God. Yes, speculation sure, but nothing solid. I do think the above events can align, with the series of Judgments upon Israel prophesied in the law, in Lev 26. A series of judgements waiting for repentance in between. If they were not reformed by the former then.....I will punish you 7 x more for your sins. Simon ben Giora, seems to fit this one.

Simon began to slaughter any and all he felt were against him. Even some of his close advisors he feared had turned against him. He locked down the city refusing to allow people to leave, even to the point of anyone taken out as dead, would have a sword thrust through to make sure they were in fact dead. Burning and attacking food supply (in a sabbath year at that) to starve other factions in the city, into submission. I think it was rabbi Telushkin who said, he killed more Jew's that any of the Romans did. This a situation where they would flee when no one was chasing them, they were locked in the city with this tyrannical ruler.

Le 26:17  And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Anne2

[truth7t7]

On 6/17/2023 at 5:30 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

The apostles asked about the signs that would precede the destruction of the Temple and surrounding buildings they were LOOKING AT WITH THIER OWN EYES.

 

Luke 21:5-6

 

King James Version

 

 

⁵ And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

⁶ As for these things which ye behold,the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Jesus Christ spoke of a symbolic destruction of the Temple seen, and the Temple destroyed was his literal body as scripture clearly teaches below

"Destroy This Temple" as Jesus and the Pharisees viewed the temple that took 46 years to build

Interpretation: But he spake of the temple of his body

"Yes" Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment, would be found in the court of the Pharisees literal interpretation

Once Again, 66-70AD Jerusalems destruction had absolutely "Nothing" to do with fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, Mark Chapter 13, or Luke Chapter 21

John 2:18-22KJV

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.