Let's discuss Revelation 17

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

But, looking back, we see that Antiochus defiled the Temple like the coming Anti-Christ will do, he killed 60-90K Jews, and he appointed a High Priest who betrayed his own people, just like the coming False Prophet will do. So, Jason is an ARCHETYPE False Prophet to come thus the False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest. The SHADOW God gave us did not just give us ONE TYPE, it gave us BOTH TYPES working together at the exact same time, else it would not be a true SHADOW of things to come. 

Antiochus act of placing a statue in the Zeus in the temple prefigures that the end time abomination of desolation will be a statue image.

Now did the high priest Jason shadow as a type of what the false prophet will be ?

No, and here is the reason. The false prophet in Revelation 13:13 calls fire down from heaven.    Just as Elijah the prophet did in his battle with the prophets of Baal.

Was the prophet Elijah a high priest ?    No, he was not.

In addition, the Jews are expecting that Elijah will come and prepare the nation for the messianic age.     And also the Jews believe that the messiah will be anointed the King of Israel - by a known prophet - just as Samuel the prophet anointed Saul and David, and Nathan the prophet anointed Solomon - kings of Israel.

So the false prophet will not be a high priest, but will pass himself off to the Jews initially as being Elijah.    And the false prophet will be the one who anoints the prince who shall come, following Gog/Magog, the King of Israel - making that person the Antichrist.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, douggg said:

The problem is not with my comprehension abilities, but with your communication abilities.    For example, you don't write 1260 days, nor 1290 days, but instead, but write the 1260 and the 1290.    What is wrong?   Is your computer got a program in it that does not allow you write 1260 days and 1290 days?

When you get to heaven and find out everything I told you was correct and factual then you will say, I know this now, but Ron knew it back then. You will see clearly then. I write them as EVENTS because all three are EVENTS, God only uses the numbers to tell us when THREE EVENRS HAPPEN. 

1.) The 1260, happens 1260 days before the ALL THESE WONDERS END, well we know who ends the Anti-Christ rule so we know the 1260 is The Anti-Christ Conquering Israel/Jerusalem don't we?

So, the 1260 is the Anti-Christ going forth to Conquer.

2.) The 1290, happens 1290 days before ALL THESE WONDERS END, thus just like above Jesus' Second Coming is 1290 days away from this EVENT which is described as taking away the SACRIFICE (Jesus is the Sacrifice) and placing the AoD. The 2nd Beast of Revelation 13 places the IMAGE, not the Anti-Christ, go read it, the 2nd Beast comes out of the Land/Earth meaning Israel or Jerusalem (SEE BELOW).

3.) The 1335, happens 1335 days before ALL THESE WONDERS END just like the other two numbered EVENTS this is an event also, the Two-witnesses are the 1335 Blessing. Elijah shows up BEFORE the DOTL which is the 1260 also, because God will not allow the  coming Anti-Christ to go forth conquering until the Wrath falls.

Rev. 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth(Israel or Jerusalem); and he had two horns like a lamb(fakes being of God), and he spake as a dragon(He is of Satan however).

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast(He is the Religious Beast, Satan loves perverting that which is supposed to be of God) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast(Israel and those that dwell therein, who did not repent and Flee Judea), whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he(2nd Beast/F.P. a Jewish High Priest gone rogue like unto Jason under Antiochus) had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

11 hours ago, douggg said:

funny coming for someone who doesn't make timeline charts.

Not really, God/Jesus relayed everything they needed to relay without charts, it is not a needed tool in my arsenal tbh. If you like it more power to you, it is not needed by me, I can add numbers in real time, in my head.

11 hours ago, douggg said:

The 2nd woe of the huge armies killing a third of mankind is in Revelation 9, to take place near the end of the 7 years.

You say the two witnesses killed at the 2nd woe - but that is not what it means in Revelation 11:14 that one woe is passed, the third will come shortly.    The angel was referring to that John had already been shown the second woe, and he would shortly be shown what the third woe will be- which is in Revelation 12:12, the next chapter.

No, the book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order. Thus we get the Wrath of God in a separate linear spool so to speak.

Rev. 8, 9 and 16 is God's Wrath(1260 days). Rev. 12 is Satan's 1260 days cast down to earth (same timeline). Rev. 13 is the coming Anti-Christs 1260 day rule as the Beast. Rev. 17 is the Beast wiping out all Religions save for Beast Worship, and it shows Apollyon the Scarlet Colored Beast arising out of the Bottomless Pit. Rev. 18 is God Wrath destroying the whole world over a 42 month period of judgment. Rev. 10 is simply us being told the Seven Thunders (Seven Trumps) bring forth all of God's Judgments over a period of 42 months.

Rev. 11 is ONLY showing us the timeline & ministry timing of the Two-witnesses and giving us their parameters, which is to preach unto the Jews only. That is what the MEASUREMENTS in verses 1-3 mean. The reason they die before the Beast dies is because the show up before the Anti-Christ becomes the Beast at the 1260 events, they are the 1335 Blessing and Israel coming unto repentance is the biggest Blessing they could ever get right? So, there ministry has to ALMOST Parallel with God's 42 months of Wrath, because they are given the job of praying down all of the plagues. Thus their main duty is to TURN Israel back unto God, they do so in Zech. 13:8-9 JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives in Zechariah 14:1. Then after the Jews Flee Judea at the 1290 EVENT, the Jews can now start praying down the plagues of God, reread Rev. 8:4, COME OUT OF HER (Babylon/World) my people, that you receive not of her plagues. THIS IS WHY !!

So, they pray and the Asteroid Apophis will hit the earth just off the California Coast, thus the two Americas will be burned with fire, and probably many people will be killed by Tsunamis. The New World is the 1/3 tat will be destroyed by fire. Trumps 1-4 are all ONE ASTEROID event, not 4 events. Then the Last Three Trumps are the coming Three Woes Rev. 8:13 says so. So, we get Woe #1 in Rev. 9, the Demons locked up in the Pit are released, including Apollyon, they can hurt an maim people but not kill them, I think this means they torture anyone who has refused the Mark of the Beast heretofore. Then the Two-witnesses pray down Woe #2 and we see an Angelic Army of 200 million (which really just means the COMPLETE HOSTS of Heaven) kill 1/3 of those with the Mark of the Beast. Remember, Satan can not kill Satan or cast out Satan Jesus said these are Angels, the Four Angels are bound to a TIME and a DATE as in a Day, Hour, Month etc. They are not bound in the river Euphrates, they are bound to that region, at a certain TIME SPECIFIED to kill 1/3 of those loyal to Satan and his Beast. Finally Woe #3 happens in Rev. 16, it is all 7 Vials. Rev. 11 shows the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe and that the 3rd Woe comes quickly, BECUSE it is a Parenthetical Citation  Chapter, in other words this chapter happens at the exact same time as Revelation chapters 8, 9 and 16 save for the 75 days the come ahead of the DOTL in order to get Israel to repent and the fact that they die 75 days before the 7th Vial, the only reason they are allowed to die is to give us a (FUNNY) TIMLINE (with no chart), that is the only reason they have to die !! We can thus juxtapose the Beast and Two-witnesses timelines against each other to gain great information. (I can anyway)

You not understanding the book of Revelation is not in chronological order ties your hands via Prophetic Understandings.

12 hours ago, douggg said:

The 1260 days (first half of the seven years) of the two witnesses is the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6, as well.    Which is followed by Satan and his angels cast down to earth.   Which Satan's time left is the time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14 (the second half of the seven years)

You are just wrong brother. NOTHING STARTS until the middle of the week save the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 EVENT, which is them calling Israel to repent BEFORE the DOTL as scriptures clearly show us will happen. The book of Revelation is not linear. That is a FATAL MISTAKE !!

12 hours ago, douggg said:

. The two witness battle with the beast the last 75 days of their 1260 days of their first half of the seven year of prophesying.   They call down trumpet judgments 1-4.

 

Look, I understand what you are saying, its just not factual brother, I see the TIMELINES, however you saying these timelines suffice for me. But they are not correct my friend.

6 hours ago, douggg said:

Revelation Man, go look at James Albright's thread on an End Times Timeline he made.

And look at my last post on page 2 of that thread, after several modifications of my own regarding his chart, and where I think he made some mistakes.   

 

I looked but its all wrong, there is no 2300 days, its 1150 days because there are TWO SACRIFCES each day, the Morning and the Evening, thus 2300 Sacrifices taken away means1150 days, which this fits into the Anti-Christs 42 month rule.

[douggg]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Not really, God/Jesus relayed everything they needed to relay without charts, it is not a needed tool in my arsenal tbh. If you like it more power to you, it is not needed by me, I can add numbers in real time, in my head.

What is going on in your head comes out in your posts as words communicating to others.    You words are in sentences and then into paragraphs - that may make sense to you, but often times not to others.

Timeline charts are tools of clarity and organization, that reveal incorrect ideas of what people have come up with in their head.     The timeline charts present an overall picture of clarity (when properly done) - not possible with words alone.

You are expending a lot of energy in your posts - that in terms of communication is often times both confusing and incorrect to others.    You could remedy that by learning to make timeline charts.

My personal guess is that you don't want to spend the time and effort to learn how to use a computer graphics program like Paint Shop Pro to make timeline charts and other graphical presentations.   Which I think is the case for most people why they don't post timeline charts either.   

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I looked but its all wrong, there is no 2300 days, its 1150 days because there are TWO SACRIFCES each day, the Morning and the Evening, thus 2300 Sacrifices taken away means1150 days, which this fits into the Anti-Christs 42 month rule.

Here is what the text says...  2300 days.... mornings and evenings are not even in the text of how long the vision shall be.

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The timeline chart showing 2300 days is correct.   And so is scriptural reference below the 2300 days is correct - Daniel 8:12-14.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by douggg

[Shilohsfoal]

On 6/18/2023 at 12:57 AM, douggg said:

I have created this thread for discussion anything you want about Revelation 17.

I call Revelation 17 the great overview chapter because it gives insights to events taking place in previous chapters of Revelation 12 and Revelation 13, in particular.

 

I asked you this in another thread but I guess you didn't see it 

 

Do you believe Babylon ,which is attacked on the day of the Lord is destroyed or just had its kingdom taken from it?

 

Revelation 17

¹⁶ And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

Also ,do you believe the day of the Lord was 2550 years ago or do you believe that day is sometime in the future?

Edited June 25, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

asked you this in another thread but I guess you didn't see it 

 

Do you believe Babylon ,which is attacked on the day of the Lord is destroyed or just had its kingdom taken from it?

The Babylonian empire ended in Daniel 5:30-31.    The city of Babylon was occupied by the Medes and Persian for a long time, but eventually fell into decay of its once former self, of being a mighty city.

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Revelation 17

¹⁶ And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 17:16 is about the woman turned prostitute - one of the daughters of Mystery, Babylon the Great, mother of harlots and abominations up on the earth.

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Also ,do you believe the day of the Lord was 2550 years ago or do you believe that day is sometime in the future?

The Isaiah 13 text is likening the fall of ancient babylon with the end times day of the Lord.   Babylon's fall in in Isaiah 13:17-22 and long term abandonment of it.

Babylon has become over generations since it first being conquered by the Medes, a waste land area.   There are some photos of it online, in a google search -"site of ancient babylon"

Isaiah 13:

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

 

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

6 hours ago, douggg said:

The Babylonian empire ended in Daniel 5:30-31.    The city of Babylon was occupied by the Medes and Persian for a long time, but eventually fell into decay of its once former self, of being a mighty city.

Revelation 17:16 is about the woman turned prostitute - one of the daughters of Mystery, Babylon the Great, mother of harlots and abominations up on the earth.

The Isaiah 13 text is likening the fall of ancient babylon with the end times day of the Lord.   Babylon's fall in in Isaiah 13:17-22 and long term abandonment of it.

Babylon has become over generations since it first being conquered by the Medes, a waste land area.   There are some photos of it online, in a google search -"site of ancient babylon"

Isaiah 13:

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

 

 

 

Isaiah says Babylon will be destroyed on the day of the Lord by the Medes just as the  Jeremiah 51 prophecy.

Isaiah 13

16  Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

¹⁷ Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

 

Seems to be describing the same events that take place in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord.

 

zech 14

A day of the LORD is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

 

And I think everyone knows that Iran's goal is to break all the bows of Israel in an overwhelming flurry so that Israel  can't respond in kind.The testing of Israel's shield has been ongoing for some time now as the Medes continue to gather more and more arrows.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-ukraine-war-xi-jinping-china-russia-in-secret-talks-to-supply-iran-missile-propellant/

 

According to Isaiah 14,After Babylon is destroyed ,a response comes from the north.

 

Isaiah 14

²⁹ Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

³⁰ And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

³¹ Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

³² What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

 

Isaiah received this prophecy from the Lord in the year the evil king of Judea ,Ahaz died.

 

²⁸ In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

 

Isaiah counsels Ahaz to trust in God rather than foreign allies, and tells him to ask for a sign to confirm that this is a true prophecy (verse 7:11). Ahaz refuses, saying he will not test God (7:12). Isaiah replies that Ahaz will have a sign whether he asks for it or not, and the sign will be the birth of a child, and the child's mother will call it Immanuel, meaning "God-with-us" (7:13–14).^[5

 

^{Now if I'm not mistaken,Israel trusts in the king of the north 42 months before the time of the end in Daniel 11.The time of the end when Babylon is destroyed.}

Edited June 25, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

45 minutes ago, jamesdalbright said:

Dan 8:9 depicts the Antichrist emerging outside of Israel when it states he becomes very popular in Israel. 

Dan. 8:9   And out of one of them came forth a rather small horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Beautiful Land.

Actually ,the little horn voted to call itself Israel after it established itself in the pleasant land.

Today the little horn is ranked the forth most powerful country in the world out of 195 even though it is ranked 153 in land mass.A truly astounding feat for a country that is only 75 years old.

But even so,his kingdom shall be taken and destroyed and given to the saints of the most high.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Isaiah says Babylon will be destroyed on the day of the Lord by the Medes just as the  Jeremiah 51 prophecy.

Did you do a google search regarding the site of ancient Babylon?    It is going to be pretty hard to destroy something that no longer exists.     

[douggg]

1 minute ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Actually ,the little horn voted to call itself Israel after it established itself in the pleasant land.

Today the little horn is ranked the forth most powerful country in the world out of 195 even though it is ranked 153 in land mass.A truly astounding feat for a country that is only 75 years old.

But even so,his kingdom shall be taken and destroyed and given to the saints of the most high.

The little horn is a person, not a country.

The little horn will be associated with ten concurrent reigning kings (leaders).

 

[Shilohsfoal]

17 minutes ago, douggg said:

Did you do a google search regarding the site of ancient Babylon?    It is going to be pretty hard to destroy something that no longer exists.     

Perhaps you didn't understand what I'm saying.

On the same exact day Isaiah says Babylon is taken zechariah says Jerusalem is taken.

At the same time Babylon is taken by the beast that ascends from the abyss,that beast is standing over the dead corpse of the two witnesses in Jerusalem.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Shilohsfoal