Let's discuss Revelation 17

[Shilohsfoal]

5 minutes ago, douggg said:

The little horn is a person, not a country.

The little horn will be associated with ten concurrent reigning kings (leaders).

 

And that king calls itself by the name of Israel 

Would you like me to tell you the names of the other ten kings and the dates they came up in that kingdom?

The ten that came up before the little horn ,who's look is much stouter than his fellows?

 

They are all located right there in the promised land.All located within the same promised kingdom.

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Revelation Man]

21 hours ago, jamesdalbright said:

Dan 9:27, Dan 8:12 and Rev. 24:15-21 tell us that plagues found in the Revelation begin in the middle of the week or after and as a result of the Antichrist and False Prophet setting up the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem.

The Plagues do start in the middle of the week, at the 1260, which comes 30 days after the 1290. God gives the Jews a SIGN to flee Judea. God doesn't just allow the Anti-Christ to conquer them then give them a sign to flee, that makes no sense. This however has been engrained on our heads, the AoD is the Anti-Christ but it is not, it is the False Prophet. The Anti-Christ orders this from afar.

21 hours ago, jamesdalbright said:

Dan 9:27 “And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete desup ttruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

He beaks it in the midst of the week, but through the False Prophet who stops Jesus Worship (takes away the Sacrifice) and then places an image of the A.C. (E.U. President) up in the temple.

22 hours ago, jamesdalbright said:

Dan 8:12 And on account of transgression the host will be given over to the horn along with the regular sacrifice; and it will fling truth to the ground and perform its will and prosper.

 

Lets add the full context, from a known good version (KJV)

Dan. 12:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host(Jewish High Priest or JHP), and by him(JHP takes the order) the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down(this defiles the temple).

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression(The JHP sinned against God and threw in with the A.C.), and it cast down the truth to the ground(This defiles the temple); and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

So, the vs 14 should not even read DAYS if you look at the original texts, as a matter of fact the exact same text in Dan. 8:26 does not says DAYS, this was just the English translators not understanding the text, but when they saw HOW LONG in vs. 13 they could only think in terms of Days not in the number of Sacrifices,(which is what it is) and how many days it would take to fulfill that many Sacrifices being taken away, and I can prove via Scriptures there was two daily sacrifices each day. Dan. 9:21 proves this. 

Dan. 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. { So, there were TWO Oblations each day. }

So, via my Greek/Hebrew Study bible with links to Strong's lets compare what these TWO VERSES say and why they say the same thing but one says DAYS and the other says (correctly) Evening and Morning. NOTICE Two Numbers not one behind DAYS !!

Dan. 8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 1242 then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

Dan. 8:26 And the vision 4758 of the evening 6153 and the morning 1242 which x834 was told 559 z8738 [is] true: 571 wherefore shut thou up 5640 z8798 x859 the vision; 2377 for x3588 it [shall be] for many 7227 days. 3117

See how vs. 13 takes the EXACT SAME TEXT (The exact same two numbers prove this) and one is translated (wrongly) DAYS whilst the other is translated (correctly) as Evening & Morning. 

6153 EREB

#6153 עֶרֶב `ereb {eh'-reb} from H6150; TWOT - 1689a; n m

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) evening, night, sunset 1a) evening, sunset 1b) night

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

From H6150; dusk:— + day, even (-ing, tide), night.

—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

1242 BOQUER 

#1242 בֹּקֶר boqer {bo'-ker} from H1239; TWOT - 274c; n m

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) morning, break of day 1a) morning 1a1) of end of night 1a2) of coming of daylight 1a3) of coming of sunrise 1a4) of beginning of day 1a5) of bright joy after night of distress (fig.) 1b) morrow, next day, next morning

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

From H1239; properly dawn (as the break of day); generally morning:— (+) day, early, morning, morrow.

—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

So, as we can clearly see this is not ONE WORD (Day) it is TWO WORDS (Evening & Morning). Now lets redo vs. 14 and translate it properly. 

Dan. 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred  Evening and Morning [sacrifices are taken away] [ NOT days]; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

We can add in Sacrifices being TAKEN AWAY by reading vs. 13, we know what is being taken away, its The Sacrifice (which is really just Jesus Worship being forbidden). But in Jewish practice, as shown above in Dan. 9:21 they gave TRIBUTE  or PRAYER unto God in the Evening and in the Morning. If they were in Jerusalem it may be a small sacrifice in reality, or a tribute, away from the temple Daniel prayed as a tribute. Then about the TIME of the Evening Oblation (tribute unto God/Prayer) Gabriel came. So, the lesson learned here is there were TWO TRIBUTES or Sacrifices daily not one, thus 2300 Tributes or Evening & Morning Sacrifices are TAKEN AWAY and that covers 1150 days, leave the TEXT AS IS, do not follow English Translators !! Who give us the proper translation (LOL) in vs. 26, but then CHANGE IT UP in the same chapter, because they saw a question that asked HOW LONG, thus they felt then need to make it 2300 days, not 2300 SACRIFICES and when you have 2 sacrifices a day, that equals 1150 actual days.

These things are VERY IMPORTANT, no doubt the English translators overall did a great job, but Satan threw in a few snags along the way, some we MUST look to the ORIGINAL TEXTSM anyone inly looking at the English translations is not vetting scriptures properly.

23 hours ago, jamesdalbright said:

The only woe that occurs after the second woe and before the 1000 years begins is Harmageddon.

 

Well, not exactly, the 3rd Woe comes, the 3rd Woe emits from the 7th Trump, meaning that the Last or 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials. The 7th Vial is Armageddon, we speak English no use in calling it Harmageddon unless you also want to call Jesus Ieous (see my point). Jason, Jesus and Joshua are al Yeshua in Hebrew. The Greek names are Jason, Jesus and Joshua. 

23 hours ago, jamesdalbright said:

The question is what scriptures contain the statements that led you to lay out the sequence you arrived at in the Book of the Revelation?

Knowing the bible OVERALL is what helps one understand these things, it would be too in depth early this morning, after having explained why the 2300 DAYS is really 2300 Sacrifices which is 1150 days since there are two sacrifices or tributes unto God daily.

I can answer this separately tonight in depth, or tomorrow. 

[douggg]

42 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Perhaps you didn't understand what I'm saying.

On the same exact day Isaiah says Babylon is taken zechariah says Jerusalem is taken.

At the same time Babylon is taken by the beast that ascends from the abyss,that beast is standing over the dead corpse of the two witnesses in Jerusalem.

In Isaiah 13, there are two prophecies.

(1) the end of the ancient Babylon the great kingdom, by the Medes, and ultimately Babylon the city becoming a waste land.  Daniel 5 details the Medes ending the Babylonian kingdom.    google search of ancient Babylon city site as having become a waste.

(2) inserted within what was going to happen to Babylon in Isaiah's day, the end times Day of the Lord, is in verses 6- 13.

A mixture of prophecies for during Isaiah's time and for the end times.

_____________________________________________________

Zechariah 14 is end times for certain.    But it is not medes coming up against Jerusalem in the end times, but all nations of the world (Zechariah 14:2).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, jamesdalbright said:

Dan 8:9 depicts the Antichrist emerging outside of Israel when it states he becomes very popular in Israel. 

Dan. 8:9   And out of one of them came forth a rather small horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Beautiful Land.

Yes, in Greece, look at the DIRECTION he Conquers TOWARDS in the passage, thus he is a Greek born man, which comes to power in the E.U. but he has Assyrian blood (Isaiah chapter 10).

You see looking at the BIG PICTURE is how we have to operate, God gives us clues the world can not see, even many Christians have a hard time, especially when God locks up things until the very end with hard to understand sequences like the one above. 

Why was it so hard until the very end times? Well, Israel was born again in 1948, many felt Israel would never be a nation again, so thus hindered their understandings, SMILE. Then on top of that they had to understand that the E.U. would reunite as the 10 Kings which really just means COMLETE Europe Reunited. The they had to understand, Oh, Greece will be in the E.U. they could not have known this even 75 years ago !! But I have all this info at my fingertips, Amen. I can look at Dan. 8:9 and understand, YES  he has to be born in Greece because in this Four General inter-kingdom battle in Dan. 8:9 he Conquers TOWARDS the East (Seleucus/Turkey) and he Conquers TOWARDS the South (Ptolemy or Egypt) and TOWARDS Israel. I can also understand that Old Assyria was Northern Iraq and Southern Turkey, so to be an Assyrian simply means as a Turk, who is born in Greece, after his Parents or Grandparents migrate to Greece who they have a common border with, is al it takes for this man to fulfill all of this. He simply has to be a Turk born in Greece, who then comes to power in the E.U. as their President. Not a hard thing to do, BUT its a hard thing to figure out when the Prophecy is Three Pronged, that makes it much harder to understand, and ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE if one is not living in these End Times.

I appreciate you being receptive, I learn from others at times, maybe small bits, and keep moving forward. I used be like everyone else, the 144,000 are going to be Super Preachers when challenged to find it by a common guy, meaning not a preacher etc. and its NOT THERE, this was very a important lesson to me and why I later came to see the 144,000 as just a CODE for AL Israel who repents, just like the 7000 God SAVED unto Himself, and the 1/3 who repent, and it helped me see that the Seals DO NOTHING, they are Prophetic Utterances by Jesus as he slowly (UNSEALS the SEALED Trumpet Judgment Scroll) foretells what the Trumps will eventually bring to mankind. Seals 1-5 are all of the Coming Anti-Christs Actions over a 42 month period of time. Seal 36 foretells of God's Wrath. Seal #6 can be seen in Rev. 8, 9 and 16 and Seals 1-5 can be seen in Rev. 12, 13, 17, whilst 18 is a mixture of both God's Wrath and the Demons being cast down to earth. 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Revelation Man

[douggg]

52 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

And that king calls itself by the name of Israel 

A king would call himself - not itself.

You comment does not make sense anyway.   

[douggg]

1 hour ago, jamesdalbright said:

Dan 8:9 depicts the Antichrist emerging outside of Israel when it states he becomes very popular in Israel. 

James, I agree with you that the little horn emerges outside of Israel.

But what verses are you referring to that he becomes very popular in Israel ?

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

24 minutes ago, douggg said:

In Isaiah 13, there are two prophecies.

(1) the end of the ancient Babylon the great kingdom, by the Medes, and ultimately Babylon the city becoming a waste land.  Daniel 5 details the Medes ending the Babylonian kingdom.    google search of ancient Babylon city site as having become a waste.

(2) inserted within what was going to happen to Babylon in Isaiah's day, the end times Day of the Lord, is in verses 6- 13.

A mixture of prophecies for during Isaiah's time and for the end times.

_____________________________________________________

Zechariah 14 is end times for certain.    But it is not medes coming up against Jerusalem in the end times, but all nations of the world (Zechariah 14:2).

 

 

 

 

 

Actually ,it's not all nations of the world.

It is all nations of the kingdom which consists of ten nations and those giving their power to the beast that ascends from the Pitt.

To say the Medes (which is present day Iran) has no part in the overthrow of the Israeli government and the deaths of the Jews in Israel is a bit idiotic seeing it is the Medes who are currently arming itself for its invasion of Israel aka Babylon.

[Shilohsfoal]

14 minutes ago, douggg said:

A king would call himself - not itself.

You comment does not make sense anyway.   

It makes sense if you comprehend that a king governs a kingdom and he kingdom is given a name.The king of that kingdom can change over time but the kingdom itself still is called by the same name.

 

Hence the king of the north in Daniel 11 continues to change as time progressed through chapter 11 but they king is always referd to as the king of the north.

The little horn has had many kings but the name of that kingdom has remained the same.The ancient kingdom of Israel has had many kings but it has always been called Israel.

For some reason you are not able to believe the little horn could actually call itself by a name.

Perhaps there's a reason you are not able to understand though.

In the meantime,the Medes continue to arm itself for its conquest of Babylon and the king of Judea will seek help from its allies in the sides of the north.

[douggg]

34 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Plagues do start in the middle of the week, at the 1260, which comes 30 days after the 1290.

 

 

The Jews begin to flee to the mountains when the Aod is setup on Day 1185.

As they are fleeing, the two witnesses battle with beast by the plagues of Trumpets 1-4,- providing cover for the fleeing Jews for the 75 days between Day 1185 and Day 1260.  On Day 1260, the beast is finally able to overcome the two witnesses and kills them.

The Jews who missed their opportunity to flee are the ones in Revelation 12:17.

Revelation 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

 

[douggg]

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

It makes sense if you comprehend that a king governs a kingdom and he kingdom is given a name.

So the Babylonian Empire was named after some king called Babylon ?

The same for the Greek empire was named after some king called Greek ?

The same for the Persian empire was named after some king called Persia ?

... I don't think so.