Let's discuss Revelation 17

[truth7t7]

27 minutes ago, douggg said:

I ask you what was the number of the woe to the inhabiters of earth and seas is.    Not to describe the woe.    The text itself in Revelation 12:12 describes the woe.

 

It not "generic" warning.    It is a specific woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea.   Satan cast down to earth having great wrath.

 

When the 7th angel sounds, that is the signal for Michael and his angels to cast Satan and his angels.   It will be right after the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 and the 1260 days of the two witnesses in Reveltion 11:3.

 

 

I Disagree with your claims and charts as posted,we have went about the Bush a few times on the same postings, the horse is dead

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[truth7t7]

26 minutes ago, douggg said:

No, Jesus does not dissolve this present earth.    In Zechariah 14, after Jesus returns, the

nations of the earth will come to Jerusalem to worship the great King - Jesus.

That takes place after the millennial rule of Jesus on this present earth.

I Disagree with your claims, Zechariah 14:1-12 describes (The Day Of The Lord) and the (Eternal Kingdom) seen after this

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

[truth7t7]

30 minutes ago, douggg said:

That takes place after the millennial rule of Jesus on this present earth.

There won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you claim, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End) as you have been clearly shown 

[douggg]

11 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

There won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you claim, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End) as you have been clearly shown 

So you are Amil ?   That explains a lot.    Please remind me the next time we disagree on anything.     I don't try to convince Amil nor Partial Preterists of anything.

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, douggg said:

So you are Amil ?   That explains a lot.    Please remind me the next time we disagree on anything.     I don't try to convince Amil nor Partial Preterists of anything.

Some can ONLY understand the FIRE 'of this world' and have no concept of or eyes to see the 'cleansing fire' or the 'fire' that DOESN'T burn the bush.  

Seems to go hand in hand with this concept also being unattainable, ELEMENTS.  Somehow ELEMENTs are SEEN as 'physical things' when in fact, they are not.  

4747. stoicheion ►
Strong's Concordance
stoicheion: one of a row, hence a letter (of the alphabet), by ext. the elements (of knowledge)
Original Word: στοιχεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stoicheion
Phonetic Spelling: (stoy-khi'-on)
Definition: one of a row, a letter (of the alphabet), the elements (of knowledge)
Usage: (a) plur: the heavenly bodies, (b) a rudiment, an element, a rudimentary principle, an elementary rule.
HELPS Word-studies
4747 stoixeíon– properly, fundamentals, like with the basic components of a philosophy, structure, etc.; (figuratively) "first principles," like the basic fundamentals of Christianity.

[4747 (stoixeíon) refers to "the rudiments with which mankind . . . were indoctrinated (before the time of Christ), i.e. the elements of religious training or the ceremonial precepts common alike to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles" (J. Thayer).

The RSV however renders stoixeia as "elemental spirits," i.e. spiritual powers or "cosmic spirits" (DNTT, 2, 828). This views 4747 /stoixeíon ("elements") as ancient astral beings associated with the very beginning (make-up) of the earth.]


And the proof that they can't be 'seen' is even when one knows the information has been given there isn't the slightest bit of acknowledgement or change in perspective.  

[DeighAnn]

 

16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose:

He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire:

17Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

How can one NOT SEE that FIRE coming with Christ, doesn't mean THE END of the WORLD


1 Peter 1:7 - That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:






 

REV 19
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

[truth7t7]

41 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Some can ONLY understand the FIRE 'of this world' and have no concept of or eyes to see the 'cleansing fire' or the 'fire' that DOESN'T burn the bush.  

Seems to go hand in hand with this concept also being unattainable, ELEMENTS.  Somehow ELEMENTs are SEEN as 'physical things' when in fact, they are not.  

4747. stoicheion ►
Strong's Concordance
stoicheion: one of a row, hence a letter (of the alphabet), by ext. the elements (of knowledge)
Original Word: στοιχεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stoicheion
Phonetic Spelling: (stoy-khi'-on)
Definition: one of a row, a letter (of the alphabet), the elements (of knowledge)
Usage: (a) plur: the heavenly bodies, (b) a rudiment, an element, a rudimentary principle, an elementary rule.
HELPS Word-studies
4747 stoixeíon– properly, fundamentals, like with the basic components of a philosophy, structure, etc.; (figuratively) "first principles," like the basic fundamentals of Christianity.

[4747 (stoixeíon) refers to "the rudiments with which mankind . . . were indoctrinated (before the time of Christ), i.e. the elements of religious training or the ceremonial precepts common alike to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles" (J. Thayer).

The RSV however renders stoixeia as "elemental spirits," i.e. spiritual powers or "cosmic spirits" (DNTT, 2, 828). This views 4747 /stoixeíon ("elements") as ancient astral beings associated with the very beginning (make-up) of the earth.]


And the proof that they can't be 'seen' is even when one knows the information has been given there isn't the slightest bit of acknowledgement or change in perspective.  

God's words clearly teach it's fire time when Jesus returns, just as it came upon Sodom and Gomorrah

Your claim it's going to be like the fire in the burning bush would be false

Did fire "literally" come from the Lord out of heaven, destroying the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah "100% Yes", just as it will when Jesus is revealed

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Edited July 9, 2023 by truth7t7