How may our women understand to be UNDER OBEDIENCE?

[JimmyB]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:16 PM, farouk said:

Hi @Anne2 I think sometimes ppl can make sweeping assumptions.

That in itself is a sweeping assumption.  LOL!

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Tony the student said:

May I offer a different way of considering God's Truth. Many consider that because we are in Jesus that our flesh is dead. One person has a spirit and soul that is inhabiting a flesh a blood body. When we come to Christ Jesus, our spirit should become one with God's Holy Spirit, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The idea today that "there is neither male nor female" is for the day of Christ's return. This is how we shall be in the Kingdom of Heaven. As for now, I must struggle against my flesh daily so that I can overcome the lawless nature and behavior of the world. The world means, of course, chasing after the wind.

The Apostle Paul was talking to the inner man, soul, of anyone who would listen. A man has an inner self, inner man, or simply a soul. A woman also has an inner self, inner man, or simply a soul. The flesh does not change. The Spirit within the flesh changes to be like God and Jesus. We must work at obeying God.

The soul is you inside of your flesh and blood body. When I believe in God and obey Jesus Christ, I am worshipping in Spirit. The flesh and blood body Father gave me stays with me until I pass from physical into the Spiritual. I must run my race as the creation God made me to be, which is either man or woman.

God forgive us. I do not understand why people believe that a professed child of God is free to do whatever he or she thinks. God told us plainly to please God and not the world of mankind.

So that I may answer your question. How are our men to understand that God's calling is pure, true, and not subject to ancient society customs? God fearing men and women obey God. God is the Holy One of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus.

The time in which we live does not change God's Testimony in the Old Testament nor the New Testament. We must bring father and son's teaching into our lives wherever we are in life regardless of time and technology.

How about this aspect. What was changed? From old covenant to new covenant.

Carnal vs spiritual

Circumcision

Ex 12:48  And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Ro 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

The Lord's supper, eating from the table of the high priest.

Le 6:18  All the males among the children of Aaron shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations concerning the offerings of the LORD made by fire: every one that toucheth them shall be holy.

Le 6:29  All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.

1Co 10:21  Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.

 Even the requirement of males for warfare, ours is spiritual? Not carnal

Edited July 9, 2023 by Anne2

[JimmyB]

2 hours ago, Tony the student said:

May I offer a different way of considering God's Truth. Many consider that because we are in Jesus that our flesh is dead. One person has a spirit and soul that is inhabiting a flesh a blood body. When we come to Christ Jesus, our spirit should become one with God's Holy Spirit, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The idea today that "there is neither male nor female" is for the day of Christ's return. This is how we shall be in the Kingdom of Heaven. As for now, I must struggle against my flesh daily so that I can overcome the lawless nature and behavior of the world. The world means, of course, chasing after the wind.

The Apostle Paul was talking to the inner man, soul, of anyone who would listen. A man has an inner self, inner man, or simply a soul. A woman also has an inner self, inner man, or simply a soul. The flesh does not change. The Spirit within the flesh changes to be like God and Jesus. We must work at obeying God.

The soul is you inside of your flesh and blood body. When I believe in God and obey Jesus Christ, I am worshipping in Spirit. The flesh and blood body Father gave me stays with me until I pass from physical into the Spiritual. I must run my race as the creation God made me to be, which is either man or woman.

God forgive us. I do not understand why people believe that a professed child of God is free to do whatever he or she thinks. God told us plainly to please God and not the world of mankind.

So that I may answer your question. How are our men to understand that God's calling is pure, true, and not subject to ancient society customs? God fearing men and women obey God. God is the Holy One of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus.

The time in which we live does not change God's Testimony in the Old Testament nor the New Testament. We must bring father and son's teaching into our lives wherever we are in life regardless of time and technology.

I am not following what you're trying to say.  Here is that section from Paul's letter to the Galatians...

 Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be reckoned as righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:23-29

Now, pay attention to the verb tenses...

 

"Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed.  Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be reckoned as righteous by faith, so that we might be reckoned as righteous by faith.  But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith.  [We were under the law but are under it no longer. We now are (present tense) children of God]. As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.  [We are now in Christ.] There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, [these distinctions have passed] for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. [present tense]  And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, [are] heirs according to the promise." [present tense]

Claiming "The soul is you inside of your flesh and blood body" denies the internal change resulting from receiving the Holy Spirit.  We have clothed ourselves with Christ.  The old distinctions -- Jew/Greek, slave/free, male/female -- no longer exist in Christ.  We are all one now, in the present!

It doesn't say that a professed child of God is free to do whatever he or she thinks.  That makes no sense.  If a person is born of the Spirit, they are not under the power of sin, no longer have the desire to behave in a worldly fashion, e.g., lie. steal, cheat, etc.  We are a new creation in Christ!  

2 Corinthians 5:17, "So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; look, new things have come into being!"

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:35 AM, Santoso said:

Beloved ones, we heard:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

How our women  may understand to be under obedience? 

I know of no church that actually requires women to keep silent during a service. I also know many men that are not qualified to teach the scriptures to their wives and children. However I will say that it's interesting that in our modern society women seem to refuse to be in submission to anything or anyone. Even Christian women who are commanded by God to submit to their husbands refuse to do so, at least the ones that I've seen. People have decided that in the modern age the wisdom of man is superior to the wisdom of God, and while believing themselves to be good faithful servants they completely disregard the commands of God.

[Willa]

5 hours ago, believeinHim said:

I find it unwise to pray for an atheist man. I prayed for an atheist man for a long time, and it did not bode well for me. Even a Christian man can break your heart. But, at least he's a Christian man.

Women don't think clearly when they like someone. Even less so when they fall for them in love. It is not wise to have most women praying for a man. Let the men do that.

 

When I used to pray for my unsaved husband that God would save him and change him, God used trials to change me so that I could accept and love him as he was, as God did.   That included removing my self righteousness in thinking I was any better than he was.  Ouch!  Those trials are painful as they also touched my pride.

[Willa]

On 7/5/2023 at 1:29 PM, JimmyB said:

So, according to you, women should keep silent in church.  Of course, that applies only to Corinthian society of the first century, when women were apparently making too much noise in church.

Do you really think that a woman who has earned a PhD in theology and is called to be a minister should be prohibited from fulfilling her calling because of a local 1st Century rule?

And then you contradict your argument by posting this truth...

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

How are our men to understand that God's calling is pure, true, and not subject to ancient society customs?

I can accept a woman being a pastor over women's and children's ministries when she  is under the authority of a male head pastor.  I cannot accept female head pastors except in very rare circumstances.  In fact, I know of a male president of a seminary whom my pastor led to saving faith in Christ.  I know many pastors who admitted they had not been called by God to the ministry and one graduated summa cum laude from his seminary.  Another also had a doctorate.   Others had no degrees but were clearly called and gifted in preaching and teaching the word.

Two women were called by their congregations following the death of their husbands.  One, a missionary in Africa, stayed on permanently; the other stayed on as an interim pastor in their church.  One was under the authority of the head pastor as well as her husband.

However, I would not choose to attend a church with a female head pastor.  The ones that I have seen are mostly attended by women.

Women are allowed in Scripture to pray aloud in church when they are under authority.  We may prophecy, praise, or exhort when in order and inspired by the Holy Spirit.  We may not disrupt by visiting, whispering to our husbands, showing him a message or joke on a cell phone, or otherwise distracting others, or by allowing small children to do the same.    

I do believe that these Scriptures that establish the chains of command in churches are for today.  Yes we are equal in worth, but that doesn't mean we can ignore God's chain of command.  Nor can we toss out portions just because we disagree with them.                   

[RdJ]

4 hours ago, Willa said:

We may not disrupt by visiting, whispering to our husbands, showing him a message or joke on a cell phone, or otherwise distracting others, or by allowing small children to do the same. 

Why is it the task of the mom to not allow it? Is the dad not the boss?

Lol when my ex was preaching in a small house group our son said: Dad! Yes son? I need to go pee! Yeah you have to do that yourself. Hilarious. They behaved well because they wouldn't dare behave bad with him around. But then one day he didnt come and a woman who he made an elder preached and she was dominant, but her ex was also lazy and dumped it all on her, so my kids talked, because daddy wasnt there and it irritated her and she told em nasty to be quiet and I said: Come kids. Lets play outside and I put em in the bike and biked home. Go order your husband around but not me.

 

Once when I had no kids yet we went to Benny Hinn with church cause he came to Amsterdam. It was a service for kids. He announced it as such. So everyone took their kids with em and its Holland so they were walking around with their buggies mommy I want some apple juice here darling. LOL He BARKED: QUIET!!!!!

Those parents from our church were so offended. Different culture I guess, but it wad a kids service. What did he expect?

[Willa]

On 7/9/2023 at 1:39 PM, Anne2 said:

How about this aspect. What was changed? From old covenant to new covenant.

Carnal vs spiritual

Circumcision

Ex 12:48  And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Ro 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

The Lord's supper, eating from the table of the high priest.

Le 6:18  All the males among the children of Aaron shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations concerning the offerings of the LORD made by fire: every one that toucheth them shall be holy.

Le 6:29  All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.

1Co 10:21  Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.

 Even the requirement of males for warfare, ours is spiritual? Not carnal

The Lord's Supper is a celebration of part of the Seder, the Passover meal that Jesus was celebrating with His disciples.

[Willa]

9 hours ago, RdJ said:

Why is it the task of the mom to not allow it? Is the dad not the boss?

Dad didn't go to church when my kids were toddlers.  Thinking of 18 month old babies.  

[RdJ]

38 minutes ago, Willa said:

Dad didn't go to church when my kids were toddlers.  Thinking of 18 month old babies.  

I think it's always so stupid when they only have something for adults who always demand quietude and then they're surprised that the kids aren't interested anymore. In Toronto they had a family service on Sundays with puppet players and such.