Are carnal Christian’s saved?

[Stewardofthemystery]

31 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

What do you think @Stewardofthemystery.?..I’m glad you made me look deeper into this...I appreciate it..we are all learning Brother ,

Do Born Again Christians Have a Sinful Nature?

Jesus said, “If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.” Mark 3:25

   Do born again Christians have a sinful nature? Absolutely not!  The Bible is very straightforward on this.  Yet many Christians mistakenly think they have two natures within them, a new nature and a sin nature, which war against each other.  They believe that their new nature loves God and wants to practice righteousness but that their old sinful nature loves sin and wants to practice lawlessness.  They think that their Christian life reflects whichever of their two natures they yield themselves to the most. This lie is one of the greatest deceptions the devil has “sold” to the church and many Christians have bought this lie.  Tragically, these Christians are then overcome by sin because they do not understand or believe   the truth about Christ’s triumph on the cross.

   Jesus Christ said if you know the truth of His Word, He will free you from slavery to sin (John 8:31-36).  With this in mind, let us look at three Scriptures that plainly state we no longer have a sinful nature after we are born of the Spirit.  Here is the first one: “We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that our body of sin (our sinful nature) might be removed so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died has been freed from sin (Romans 6:6-7).”  Here is the second one: “You are not in the flesh (the sinful nature) but inthe Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you (Romans 8:9).  And here is the third one: “In Him you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of flesh (the sinful nature), by the circumcision of Christ (Colossians 2:11).”  In all three verses, the apostle Paul teaches that we no longer have a sinful nature after we are born again of God’s Spirit.

   The Bible contains two powerful pictures to show us that our sinful nature was removed from us when we were born again.  Circumcision was the seal of righteousness in the Old Covenant. In circumcision, the foreskin was removed. Paul taught that this portrayed that our sinful nature was removed from us in Christ (Colossians 2:11). Water baptism is a seal of righteousness in the New Covenant.  In baptism, the old man is given a water “burial.” Again Paul taught that this portrayed that our sinful nature was removed from us in Christ (Romans 6:3-6).  Thus both the Old Covenant and New Covenant clearly portray what happened to our sinful nature when we were born again.  Our sinful nature died and God completely removed it from our being.

   This is what Paul called the mystery of the gospel (Colossians 1:27).  How could Christ, who is God’s Holy One, spiritually live in a people who were born with a sinful nature?  God solved this dilemma by performing a divine heart transplant so that we would be born again.  When Christ died on the cross, He not only bore our sins on the cross; He also bore our sinful nature on the cross with Him.  Therefore, when Christ died, God exchanged our terminally sin-sick heart with His Son’s divine heart to deliver us from the power of sin and death (2 Corinthians 13:5; Galatians 4:6).  This divine operation of the cross, by which God removed our sinful nature and replaced it with Christ’s nature, is the promise of the New Covenant, the purpose of Christ’s Atonement and the power of Christ’s gospel. It was also foretold by the Old Testament prophets: “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove your heart of stone from your flesh (Ezekiel 36:26-27; see also Jeremiah 31:31-33).”

   Some Christians are confused when they read Romans Chapter 7, and think perhaps the person described in this passage is a Christian.  But Paul wrote this particular chapter to his fellow Jews (see Romans 7:1) to convince them that in Christ, they died not only to sin; they also died to the Mosaic Law.  Paul describes the frustration and anguish of a person who is not yet born again and wants to obey God but who cannot do so because of his sinful nature.  That person finally cries out, “I am a wretched man!  Who will set me free from this body of death (this sinful nature)? (Romans 7:24)”  Paul then provides the answer based on his own personal experience, “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7:25)” God knew that man’s sinful nature was his Achilles heel, which Satan would use to continually snare him in sin.  This is why the Old Covenant could not accomplish God’s eternal purpose since man’s sinful nature prevented   him from truly obeying God’s commandments.  Therefore, what the Law was powerless to do because of our sinful nature; God did in the New Covenant by sending His Son who perfectly fulfilled the Law and then become sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ (Romans 8:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

   When God completed His divine heart transplant, He did not leave us with two natures.  If God had left a sinful nature in us, we would be divided in heart and mind.  We could never stand up to Satan’s attacks and accusations.  If we still had a sinful nature, the devil would always have a spiritual foothold of sin within us to defeat us.  This would have been a woefully incomplete and pitiful salvation. But thank God that Christ’s death on the cross has given us complete victory over sin!  By the cross, God delivered us not only from the penalty of sin; He also delivered us from the power of sin by destroying and removing our sinful nature.  We are now a holy new creation in Christ.  But if our sinful nature is dead and gone, then why do we still sin?  Because our spiritual mind needs to be renewed and transformed by God’s Word to the point that we act on the truth that we have died and been freed from sin (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23).  This is the whole gospel that Paul practiced: “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in the Son of God (Galatians 2:20).”

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” 2 Corinth 5:17

What you just Posted above is sound doctrine! 👍

The only error I see in it is this part right here….

“Water baptism is a seal of righteousness in the New Covenant”

The “seal” of the Righteousness of the faith, or the New Covenant being “sealed” in us is “the seal”of the Holy Spirit.

Notice…

 

2 Corinthians 1:22

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

The “sign” of circumcision was given as a “sign” of our hearts and minds being circumcised “by the Spirit,”and God writing His words on our hearts and minds “by the Spirit.” That is the sign of the law and Testimony being “sealed” in the Lords disciples.

 

Romans 4:11

And he received “the sign”of circumcision, “a seal of the righteousness of the faith”which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

 

Deuteronomy 30:6

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

Romans 2:29

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

Philippians 3:3

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

It is the Holy Spirit that “seals”the Testimony of Jesus Christ upon our hearts/minds.

 

2 Corinthians 3:3

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

Isaiah 8:16

Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

 

Jeremiah 31:31-33

King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Hebrews 8:8-10

King James Version

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”

So it is the Holy Spirit baptism that “seals” the Lords elect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, SaraJane said:

Don’t you have that new heart/ Spirit within?

read the commentary I presented...you may learn something from it, I know I certainly did...

 

I also experience Rom 7 ...

[enoob57]

3 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

Read the summary....I posted.  @Stewardofthemystery....he is/ was right in what he posted.....

Praise God for that truth.

Paul was a much greater in spiritual strength than I and he struggled with flesh and if you are not then I think the council and weight of the matter belongs with Scripture and it's council... I totally disagree with your assessments on this...

[enoob57]

6 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

Meaning?

 

Experience?

Please do not suppose Rom 7 does not say what it says... people will begin to twist Scripture to yield to their pet doctrines. Let me understand what you are teaching- you are saying that you live without sin in your life?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Here is my evidence based on the words of God.

You will know a tree by his fruit, either good or evil.

Matthew 7:18

A good tree “cannot”bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Again, you are totally misunderstanding Scripture, quite evident by what you "thought" 1 John 1:8 said.  You weren't even close.

The context of Matt 7:18 is about false teachers.  

15  “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

So again, you totally misunderstand.  

And your continued ignoring of 1 John 1:8 and 10 is quite revelatory.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, SaraJane said:

Brother..those who are Born  Again, don’t keep on “ deliberately “ sinning, we can’t ,for we have been birthed in the Spirit.....it’s that old man of ours...there is a battle  that goes on when we become Born Again..that battle is with our flesh..we have the Spirit of Christ...everything changes when we are birthed in the Spirit...

Am I making sense?

No, you are contradicting Scripture.

2 hours ago, SaraJane said:

It doesn’t matter if I’m not...all will be revealed to you by the Holy Spirit, he will reveal all to your heart in his timing.

The Holy Spirit HAS ALREADY revealed the truth to everyone who reads and understands Scripture.

1 John 1-

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

If you or anyone else claims to be without sin, you are deceived and have no truth in you.  

Worse, such a "claimer" is calling God a LIAR.

That's what the Holy Spirit has revealed to believers.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, SaraJane said:

You are just putting your own interpretation and opinion on scripture...just like everyone else.

No, actually I am letting the clear words of Scripture reveal the truth to those who possess the discernment to understand.  Esp 1 Jn 1:8 and 10.

[enoob57]

13 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

So why aren’t you addressing the summary I posted?

Thats what I’m wondering..your Born Again aren’t you?

 

Quote

Thats what I’m wondering..your Born Again aren’t you?

your under obligation to not personally address people ... you agreed to this when you joined this site! I addressed your topic that I disagree with your assessments... I am not required to address everything you post... 

I am under Scriptural mandate to reckon flesh to be dead to God:
Romans 6:11 (KJV)

[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

we are to walk in Spirit not in flesh in order not to sin
Galatians 5:16 (KJV)

[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:25 (KJV)

[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

This flesh wars against that and the world I am in supports the flesh in it's efforts... this is why John counseled us in this manner
1 John 1:8 (KJV)

[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

19 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

The context of Matt 7:18 is about false teachers.  

15  “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

So again, you totally misunderstand.  

Do false teachers bear “good fruit?”

Matthew 7:18

A good tree “cannot”bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

 

Who are the “good trees” that “cannot” bear evil fruit?

 

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, SaraJane said:

You are in a camp...which imo/ belief....that is why you can’t discuss the summary I posted...you don’t understand it...you have no Spiritual knowledge of what that summary is even saying.

anyway, by bye....

You don't seem to be able to keep personal attacks out of your discussion ... that is to bad because you agreed to in order to be a member here... do you not consider 'not' keeping your word sinful?