The end time has different physics?

[dad2]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The topic of rapture didn't just come up,you brought it up.

As for the topic,grass grows faster when it fertilized .You should try it some time.

Let's do the experiment then. Have a tractor seed a field with, let's say, corn. Then have a crew follow it, harvesting the corn and having to slow down lest they pass the tractor planting it!

Amos 9:13 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “When the plowman will overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes him who sows seed; when the mountains will drip sweet wine and all the hills will be dissolved.

By the way all the high mountains will be made low, so the earth will have more room for crops as well. Let me guess, you don't really believe that any more than the islands will move?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

5 minutes ago, dad2 said:

Let's do the experiment then. Have a tractor seed a field with, let's say, corn. Then have a crew follow it, harvesting the corn and having to slow down lest they pass the tractor planting it!

Amos 9:13 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “When the plowman will overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes him who sows seed; when the mountains will drip sweet wine and all the hills will be dissolved.

By the way all the high mountains will be made low, so the earth will have more room for crops as well. Let me guess, you don't really believe that any more than the islands will move?

 

 

Looks to me like the land of Israel still has mountains according to the word of God.

 

Ezekiel 38

⁸ After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

 

And that is after Israel dwells safely in the Lord's land.

Was that the experiment?

[dad2]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

A foundational premise concerning God's nature and existence is God is outside nature. God is above, beyond, outside; time, space and matter. Physical laws exist as constraints over mankind, God would have created the physical laws when He brought creation into being. 

Obviously some laws had to be in place. Which ones are the question! There will be laws in the earth in the 1000 year reign of Christ also, and in heaven. That does not mean nature never changes if He sees a need for it to change.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I did not say God was limited in any way. He can't even 'violate' physical laws since He is the one who established those laws; and He can make new ones or dispense with any of them as He requires. 

You base that claim that God cannot violate earth physics on what? A dream? A hunch? Do explain. With God, actually, nothing is impossible.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Indeed. But they will move as a result of bringing it to pass in true power, not obeyance to laws, of the which God is not beholden.

Fair enough. But you might also say that every little crop and blade of grass that will grow fast (as cited in the previous post from Amos, will require some special intervention and special miracle! So will each person living on earth then because they live 1000 years or so! Etc. Likewise, before the flood, trillions of little angels or whatever would have been needed to change the former world that was the same in most ways! I see no reason why that makes any sense whatsoever. Better to think of physics and nature as tweakable by God. Once the nature is changed, all things such as people living a certain lifespan etc adjust to the laws in place.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Fact. Any system requires parameters under which to operate. God created that system and is therefore not bound by the parameters of the system.

Any state of physical laws and nature has perimeters obviously. That does not mean they are the same. All things change. (except God). From the record of the future and the past on earth He gave us, it did change and will change again.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Maybe. From quite a little reading about the migrations after the Flood, I think the earth experienced continental drift after Babel. It's just a hypothesis, but it has some merit.

On that we agree! It makes sense that the animals and man had already walked or moved to various places on earth before the continents separated.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I am convinced we are going to see gods walking the earth and magic of stunning proportions in the great deception which precedes the Coming of the King. 

 

OK, that is another matter. But before the flood we also saw gods walking and marrying on earth! So if spirits again can walk and be here on earth with men and visible etc, that could be evidence that the nature has changed again.

[dad2]

5 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

Looks to me like the land of Israel still has mountains according to the word of God.

 

Ezekiel 38

⁸ After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

 

And that is after Israel dwells safely in the Lord's land.

Was that the experiment?

No that was an exercise in taking a verse totally out of context and time and grossly misunderstanding it. When Israel is invaded is likely around the time of the Rapture (that you don't believe in) and just before or at the start of the last several years of history (which I am not sure you believe in either?)

So that is way before the islands and mountains all move (which you say you don't believe either) etc etc

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, dad2 said:

No that was an exercise in taking a verse totally out of context and time and grossly misunderstanding it. When Israel is invaded is likely around the time of the Rapture (that you don't believe in) and just before or at the start of the last several years of history (which I am not sure you believe in either?)

So that is way before the islands and mountains all move (which you say you don't believe either) etc etc

So you believe Gog invades israel at the time of your rapture?

 

I recon you've got to wait 1000 years after the first resurection for your rapture.

 

Revelation :20

 

⁷ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

⁸ And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

[dad2]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe Gog invades israel at the time of your rapture?

If you are referring to Eze then yes. My guess is that Jesus returns in the air to rescue us somewhere around that time.

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

I recon you've got to wait 1000 years after the first resurection for your rapture.

 

Revelation :20

 

⁷ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

⁸ And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

That is not the battle where Iran and Turkey etc try to invade Israel in Eze. Sorry if you thought there was only one battle one time.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

If you are referring to Eze then yes. My guess is that Jesus returns in the air to rescue us somewhere around that time.

That is not the battle where Iran and Turkey etc try to invade Israel in Eze. Sorry if you thought there was only one battle one time.

Ezekiel 38 is about the people who are bought up out of their graves,given everlasting life and live in the land of Israel in Ezekiel 37, just like the people in revelation 20 who are resurected from the dead in live in the land of Israel when Gog invades with the other countries.

The same people 

Ezekiel 37

⁶ And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

⁷ So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

⁸ And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

⁹ Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

¹⁰ So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

 

¹¹ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

¹² Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

¹³ And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

¹⁴ And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

 

The Lord brings them up out of their graves just like he said he would.Then they will live in the land of Israel safely just as Ezekiel 38 says.

Ezekiel 38

⁸ After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

 

 

Do you know what safe means ?It means you don't need walls and fences around you to protect you.You dont need to defend yourself or anyone else.You don't even need a military.And why would you when God says your safe?

Edited August 6, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[dad2]

43 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ezekiel 38 is about the people who are bought up out of their graves,given everlasting life and live in the land of Israel in Ezekiel 37, just like the people in revelation 20 who are resurected from the dead in live in the land of Israel when Gog invades with the other countries.

 

In that chapter we see this

¹³ And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

¹⁴ And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

 

The problem is that means they are saved. So that does need to be in the future.

So when?

Ezekiel 38:17

Thus saith the Lord God ; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

 

This refers to the final leader spoken about in many places. (unless you claim it is someone else, then you better show where someone else was much prophesied about for the latter days)

That pinpoints the time.

 

Another confirmation of the timing is something bible students would recognize right away. The time of great shaking which is also in that tribulation time.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by dad2

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, dad2 said:

In that chapter we see this

¹³ And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

¹⁴ And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

 

The problem is that means they are saved. So that does need to be in the future.

So when?

Ezekiel 38:17

Thus saith the Lord God ; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

 

This refers to the final leader spoken about in many places. (unless you claim it is someone else, then you better show where someone else was much prophesied about for the latter days)

That pinpoints the time.

 

 

 

 

Yes they are saved.The are given flesh ,tendons and brought up out of their graves just as Jesus said in the gospel.

 

¹³ And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

John 5

 

²⁸ Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

²⁹ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

And according to Ezekiel those who have been raised out of their graves will dwell in the land of Israel as that land heals from the war before Gog even thinks of invading the land of  israel.

After the land has recovered from the war.

Ezekiel 38;8

After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

[dad2]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Yes they are saved.The are given flesh ,tendons and brought up out of their graves just as Jesus said in the gospel.

 

¹³ And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

John 5

 

²⁸ Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

²⁹ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

And according to Ezekiel those who have been raised out of their graves will dwell in the land of Israel as that land heals from the war before Gog even thinks of invading the land of  israel.

Are they raised before that war?

 

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

After the land has recovered from the war.

Ezekiel 38;8

After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

Future from thousands of years ago. Not future to the latter days.