YEC's cannot reconcile "tohu wabohu" in Gen 1:2 with the same 2 words in Jer 4:23!

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Somebody said it and Im just the next poster?

No, you are the most recent poster.  The others haven't been active.

8 hours ago, BeyondET said:

What does that mean you dont care who said it just accuse anybody?

Geez.

8 hours ago, BeyondET said:

You don't know if earth was spinning a thousand miles and hour if at all.

I don't even care how fast it was spinning.  And it doesn't matter.

8 hours ago, BeyondET said:

You need midday and midnight to complete a 24 hour day.

No, I only need an evening and a morning.  Anyone knows that.  

You are bringing up irrelevant points.  The "days" of Genesis 1 are about restoration anyway, not original creation.  v.2 makes that clear.  Real clear.

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Interesting are you a OEC and a YER?. Young Earth Restorationist 

I am an OEC, with a restoration of an old earth about 6,000 years ago.

And you still haven't provided a reasonable explanation for "tohu wabohu" being in a text supposedly about creation and another text about total destruction.

If you reject that Genesis 1 is mostly about a restoration following the earth becoming a wasteland, you have to line up with the YEC and believe Genesis 1 is about original creation.

You say you are an OEC.  So explain what all of ch 1 is about then, please.

[BeyondET]

41 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I am an OEC, with a restoration of an old earth about 6,000 years ago.

And you still haven't provided a reasonable explanation for "tohu wabohu" being in a text supposedly about creation and another text about total destruction.

If you reject that Genesis 1 is mostly about a restoration following the earth becoming a wasteland, you have to line up with the YEC and believe Genesis 1 is about original creation.

You say you are an OEC.  So explain what all of ch 1 is about then, please.

So you think somewhere around 4,000 BCE is when the earth was restored. There are civilization that have been living even before that time.

You are the one who is talking about total destruction, I dont have to provide anything. Just because you are trying to squeeze the two verses together doesn't mean I have to as well. They are each in their own context they don't need matching.

Edited August 15, 2023 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

No, you are the most recent poster.  The others haven't been active.

Geez.

I don't even care how fast it was spinning.  And it doesn't matter.

No, I only need an evening and a morning.  Anyone knows that.  

You are bringing up irrelevant points.  The "days" of Genesis 1 are about restoration anyway, not original creation.  v.2 makes that clear.  Real clear.

Geez you don't explain things to well or remember our conversation. There is no other poster who said anything about extra days. Im the only one who said there are other days.

That's when you started referring it to extra days which no one said that. You misunderstood what I said.

Evening and Morning can very well mean the sun never fully set below the horizon or fully risen above the horizon. Just like it is at the poles almost everyone knows that. And without the sun, earth wouldn't have a 24 hour day. You don't even mention the two great lights not created before verse 1:2 but well after.

I was fully expecting you not to care.

Edited August 15, 2023 by BeyondET

[SavedOnebyGrace]

12 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Well, this is kind of weird.  If v.3 BEGINS creation, then THAT would be when dating of the earth BEGINS.  Yet, you view v.1-2 as a pre-creation creation, or something.

Your view gots problems.

It would seem your view is that God created something (v.1-2) and then started over in v.3.  Why?

Verse Genesis 1:3 begins restoration as I've said/wrote on countless occasions. The days are time periods of restoration. The age of the Sun, Earth and Moon cannot be determined by the bible.

[BeyondET]

8 minutes ago, SavedOnebyGrace said:

Verse Genesis 1:3 begins restoration as I've said/wrote on countless occasions. The days are time periods of restoration. The age of the Sun, Earth and Moon cannot be determined by the bible.

I do as well believe the days are time periods and some restoration happened in earth's existance. 

[FreeGrace]

45 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

So you think somewhere around 4,000 BCE is when the earth was restored. There are civilization that have been living even before that time.

There are a number of biblical scholars who have back dated Adam's time on earth as somewhere in the 4th Century BC.  

45 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

You are the one who is talking about total destruction, I dont have to provide anything.

And you haven't provided anything.  Jer 4:23 is where total desctruction is described by the 2 Hebrew words "tohu wabohu", the same 2 words in Gen 1:2.

What those 2 words CANNOT MEAN is 'without form and void'.  That is just lame.

45 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Just because you are trying to squeeze the two verses together doesn't mean I have to as well. They are each in their own context they don't need matching.

How am I "squeezing" any verses together?  They just HAPPEN to be right next to each other.  In FACT, v.2 immediately follows v.1.  Didn't you realize that?

There is no context for v.2.  Nor is there for v.1.  Didn't you realize that?

[BeyondET]

5 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There are a number of biblical scholars who have back dated Adam's time on earth as somewhere in the 4th Century BC.  

And you haven't provided anything.  Jer 4:23 is where total desctruction is described by the 2 Hebrew words "tohu wabohu", the same 2 words in Gen 1:2.

What those 2 words CANNOT MEAN is 'without form and void'.  That is just lame.

How am I "squeezing" any verses together?  They just HAPPEN to be right next to each other.  In FACT, v.2 immediately follows v.1.  Didn't you realize that?

There is no context for v.2.  Nor is there for v.1.  Didn't you realize that?

Is there any Scripture that instructs people to back date to determine Adam's age, no there is not, it's a hypothesis.

No context is your realization not mine.

Jer 4:23 is talking about something else not creation 

Edited August 15, 2023 by BeyondET

[FreeGrace]

36 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Geez you don't explain things to well or remember our conversation. There is no other poster who said anything about extra days. Im the only one who said there are other days.

Oh, so NOW you are ADMITTING you said it.  So WHY did you say this 10 hours ago:

"BeyondET said: 

Your wrong again, you said extra days not me, we have already discussed that."

Do you even know what you are talking about?  First you claim I brought up extra days and you DENIED it, and now you ADMIT you are the ONLY ONE who brought up 'other days', meaning of course, extra days.

I guess it's YOU who doesn't remember the conversation.

36 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

That's when you started referring it to extra days which no one said that. You misunderstood what I said.

See what I quoted from your post 10 hours ago.

36 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Evening and Morning can very well mean the sun never fully set below the horizon or fully risen above the horizon.

I'm not into "what if's.."  here.  I'm into "what is...".  All you have here is a speculation.

36 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Just like it is at the poles almost everyone knows that. And without the sun, earth wouldn't have a 24 hour day. You don't even mention the two great lights not created before verse 1:2 but well after.

I was fully expecting you not to care.

Why should I?  What relevance is there?  You don't even know what you've been posting, which I've pointed out here.

[FreeGrace]

39 minutes ago, SavedOnebyGrace said:

Verse Genesis 1:3 begins restoration as I've said/wrote on countless occasions. The days are time periods of restoration.

I think it begins at the end of v.2, with the Holy Spirit hovering over the waters.

39 minutes ago, SavedOnebyGrace said:

The age of the Sun, Earth and Moon cannot be determined by the bible.

I agree.  But given the speed of light and the huge distances that have been measured using the light-year, it's obvious that the whole universe is quite old.