How could the unbelieving world receive salvation and be saved in the great tribulation ?

[Shilohsfoal]

14 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The relevant section in Greek in this verse is tricky, and does not actually say what it appears to say:

πρὸς τὸ κατακαῦσαι αὐτά: literally, "toward the to burn them = for the purpose of burning them."

You are correct in saying that the tares will be gathered first. However, one cannot presume that they will be burned immediately after they are gathered. The time of their burning is left open.

In my view, the righteous will be gathered out of the evil parts of the world, to "flee to the wilderness" (Rev. 12:6, 14); while those who follow evil will be gathered into their own places, particularly cities, which will be destroyed, but only after the Rapture.

We see precursors of these things already, whereby Christians have been fleeing from states like California, New York, and Illinois, wherein the most abominable, God-defying practices are being promoted into law.

No ,the weeds are burned right where they are.Those who recieve rain are not burned.

 

¹² And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

¹³ And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

¹⁴ And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

¹⁵ And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

 

¹⁶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

¹⁷ And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

¹⁸ And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

Have you received rain?

Ask for rain in the time of harvest.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[WilliamL]

35 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No ,the weeds are burned right where they are.Those who recieve rain are not burned.

 

¹² And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Zech. 14 takes place long after the Rapture.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Zech. 14 takes place long after the Rapture.

No,it doesn't.

It takes place at the coming of the Lord.

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The relevant section in Greek in this verse is tricky, and does not actually say what it appears to say:

πρὸς τὸ κατακαῦσαι αὐτά: literally, "toward the to burn them = for the purpose of burning them."

You are correct in saying that the tares will be gathered first. However, one cannot presume that they will be burned immediately after they are gathered. The time of their burning is left open.

In my view, the righteous will be gathered out of the evil parts of the world, to "flee to the wilderness" (Rev. 12:6, 14); while those who follow evil will be gathered into their own places, particularly cities, which will be destroyed, but only after the Rapture.

We see precursors of these things already, whereby Christians have been fleeing from states like California, New York, and Illinois, wherein the most abominable, God-defying practices are being promoted into law.

I hope you understand that those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ don't flee into the wilderness.

The saints don't flee.They do exactly what Jesus tells them to do in the gospel They have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

 

¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

¹⁵ And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

¹⁶ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, @R. Hartono, @Shilohsfoal, @Montana Marv, and @Diaste.

Guys, one absolutely MUST realize that Yeeshuwa` is NOT currently reigning! His inheritance is the throne of David! He was already announced as the King of the Jews (the children of Yhudah or "Judah"), but He has not yet become the King of Israel! He must become THEIR King before He moves on to become the King of kings or World Emperor. He STARTS His Kingdom at His return!

So, the parable of the wheat and tares comes at the END of His empire-building campaign, talked about in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. They come OUT of the Messiah's Kingdom and INTO the Kingdom of His Father.

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No ,the weeds are burned right where they are.Those who recieve rain are not burned.

 

¹² And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

¹³ And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

¹⁴ And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

¹⁵ And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

 

¹⁶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of ALL THE NATIONS WHICH CAME AGAINST JERUSALEM shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

¹⁷ And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth (land) unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

¹⁸ And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

Have you received rain?

Ask for rain in the time of harvest.

Shalom, @Shilohsfoal.

Sorry, but this prophecy is talking about the BEGINNING of the Messiah's Kingdom, what most call "Armageddon" or the war that ends with the battle at Har-Megiddow, southeast of Haifa, Israel. This will be the requirement for these losing nations to keep "the feast of tabernacles" or "suqqowt" or "sukkot." The REASON why they will be required to keep that holiday is because it is the anniversary of Yeeshuwa`s birth - His BIRTHDAY! If someone doesn't go to His Birthday celebration, they will be punished for not showing up! He will begin to be King of kings with the surrounding Islamic states, and they will be required to celebrate their King's (their Emperor's) birthday!

One must look at the WHOLE prophecy to see where the prophecy fits into future history.

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I hope you understand that those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ don't flee into the wilderness.

The saints don't flee.They do exactly what Jesus tells them to do in the gospel They have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

 

¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

¹⁵ And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

¹⁶ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

The "testimony of Jesus Christ" is the testimony that "Yeeshuwa` is the Christ, the Messiah of God." To say, God's Anointed One, is to say that God has selected that person to be His Choice for Israel's King!

When David was running from King Saul, he had opportunities to kill Saul, but He chose against doing that since, despite the evil in Saul's heart, He was still the "LORD'S Anointed," the "LORD'S Messiah," the "LORD'S Christ," and David would NOT stretch out his hand against God's King. God Himself would have to remove Saul as a hindrance.

[Shilohsfoal]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Shilohsfoal.

Sorry, but this prophecy is talking about the BEGINNING of the Messiah's Kingdom, what most call "Armageddon" or the war that ends with the battle at Har-Megiddow, southeast of Haifa, Israel. This will be the requirement for these losing nations to keep "the feast of tabernacles" or "suqqowt" or "sukkot." The REASON why they will be required to keep that holiday is because it is the anniversary of Yeeshuwa`s birth - His BIRTHDAY! If someone doesn't go to His Birthday celebration, they will be punished for not showing up! He will begin to be King of kings with the surrounding Islamic states, and they will be required to celebrate their King's (their Emperor's) birthday!

One must look at the WHOLE prophecy to see where the prophecy fits into future history.

The surrounded ten Islamic states are destroyed at Christs coming.The only people who are saved of those nations are christians who have received the holy ghost.

There are no Muslims in the promised land during the millinium.

[Shilohsfoal]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

The "testimony of Jesus Christ" is the testimony that "Yeeshuwa` is the Christ, the Messiah of God." To say, God's Anointed One, is to say that God has selected that person to be His Choice for Israel's King!

When David was running from King Saul, he had opportunities to kill Saul, but He chose against doing that since, despite the evil in Saul's heart, He was still the "LORD'S Anointed," the "LORD'S Messiah," the "LORD'S Christ," and David would NOT stretch out his hand against God's King. God Himself would have to remove Saul as a hindrance.

I know what the testimony of Christ is.I have it.His testimony is not just that he is Messiah.His testimony is in the gospel and in the word of God.

The point I'm making is those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ don't flee into the wilderness.

 

 

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Do you get it?The woman flees into the wilderness where the beast can reach her but the saints who have the testimony of Jesus Christ does not flee.They remain within reach unafraid of death.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The surrounded ten Islamic states are destroyed at Christs coming.The only people who are saved of those nations are christians who have received the holy ghost.

There are no Muslims in the promised land during the millinium.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

You DO realize that the Arabs who are currently Islamic in their religion are also children of Avraham, right? And, even THEY can be born again when they realize that the Prophet Isa (Yeeshuwa`) IS the Mahdi they anticipate! They are NOT completely destroyed at the Messiah's return, although they ARE in the battle for Yerushalayim and are annexed into the Messiah's Empire after being conquered by Him!

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water! God loves THEM, TOO!