Any thoughts on this?

[Starise]

19 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

OK, so you are agreeing that our future sins are not already forgiven right?

If our future sins were really already automatically forgiven, then there's no need to repent, confess our sins to the Lord, or ask for forgiveness.

In fact, some in the greasy grace industry (like Joseph Prince) teach that it's a slap in God's face to ask for forgiveness or to even acknowledge that we have sinned as he claims all future sin is automatically pre-forgiven.

And, there are some people now that are out in the open about living in sin as they have been taught it's not possible to loose one's salvation so they just let their freak flag fly!

As an example... there are people that claim God accepts homosexuality so they are openly claiming to be "gay Christians".... and what is totally hypocritical is when those that believe in OSAS and that our future sins have already been forgiven.... telling these people they are not right with God!

Those claiming to believe in OSAS and that our future sins have already been forgiven.... have no right to tell "gay Christians" that they are not saved because after all... you believe in OSAS and that our future sins have already been forgiven, right???

As I stated already, and will re state, no true believer wants to be in the positon you are attempting to portray. 

If all sins were not forgiven it diminishes the power and promises as put forth in the word.

Sin has ongoing consequences for any believer. There is also a 'sin unto death' .

If a person is tempted by homosexuality, like some Christians are, support from a church that basically runs from what the bible says and schmoozes with the devil, it won't make them feel any better, because sin makes any believer miserable. Doubly so over the unbeliever. 

Only unbelievers would willfully continue in sin with no remorse and no guilt. Even then, those vices will be destructive.

[Vine Abider]

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

It was a rhetorical question Einstein.

If all our future sins are already forgiven and washed away, then it doesn't matter if we live in sin or not because we'll all go to Heaven anyway... even if we live like the devil.

They claim if one did that they would a few rewards, such as have a smaller mansion in Heaven than others, maybe have few angers as servants than others, maybe your crown won't have as man y jewels as others... and that's the only "punishment" we would get for living in sin and being a child of disobedience.

 

BTW  - do you think if you make it, you will be living up in heaven for eternity? 

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

Those claiming to believe in OSAS and that our future sins have already been forgiven.... have no right to tell "gay Christians" that they are not saved because after all... you believe in OSAS and that our future sins have already been forgiven, right???

 

Huge - and actually pretty funny/absurd - strawman here!  I really am struggling with where to go with this and how to respond . . . (I do wonder, do you really think like this or are you just having fun with us!?)

So regrouping my composure here, let me simply ask - what is your take on the passage that's been brought up numerous times, First Corinthians 3:10-15?

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

As I stated already, and will re state, no true believer wants to be in the positon you are attempting to portray. 

If all sins were not forgiven it diminishes the power and promises as put forth in the word.

Sin has ongoing consequences for any believer. There is also a 'sin unto death' .

If a person is tempted by homosexuality, like some Christians are, support from a church that basically runs from what the bible says and schmoozes with the devil, it won't make them feel any better, because sin makes any believer miserable. Doubly so over the unbeliever. 

Only unbelievers would willfully continue in sin with no remorse and no guilt. Even then, those vices will be destructive.

And this goes toward what someone reminded me of lately - sin is no longer pleasurable for a believer because of His life in us!  I know this to be true in my experience.  Why?  Because Christ lives in me and His life is against anything that is damaging.  Plus I (old man) am dead in Him, and my new life is hidden with Christ in God.  Hidden means it's not always so obvious and I need to seek Him for His will in it, yet other times it is quite obvious. 

For instance, when I turned to Him when I was 18, He immediately took the pleasure of pot smoking from me.  This had been a key part of my life, as I loved to get with others and pass the dubie around, party, etc.  (and of course, this was also a gateway drug, which lead to many other things . . .) But the pleasure I felt from pot and doing all that, He took away in an instant.  However, I still occasionally tried to smoke pot and get that feeling back, but I found little happiness in it - it actually made me quite unsettled and paranoid.  Again, this was His life in me causing this reaction.

So I was inclined to give that up for two main reasons - it wasn't pleasurable and I knew He wasn't pleased with it (and thirdly I knew it was damaging on various levels).

Other things He has taken a longer approach with, but it's His inner anointing that speaks to me and inclines me not to do certain things.*  Sometimes the speaking is pretty clear about something and I respond more quickly; with other things it's more that His life sort of drains away (life & peace leaves) and I (too) slowly realize this is another thing damaging to me and my relationship with Him/others.

* of course there are things that are clearly stated in His word to avoid and that I know are wrong, so these are pretty much a no-brainer to not do . . .

[Rick-Parker]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Are you saying your opening statement was just a lie? 

It seems that he was setting us up for his other topic that one can lose their salvation because of unconfessed sin. Not very nice or Christian.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

no true believer wants to be in the positon you are attempting to portray. 

And yet more and more people are doing just this

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

If all sins were not forgiven it diminishes the power and promises as put forth in the word.

And yet, God's Word contains warnings that prove that not all future sins are automatically forgiven.
 

 

10 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I really am struggling with where to go with this and how to respond

That's a very common reaction when one does not accept the whole counsel of God and only focuses on a select few happy verses that support their preconceived ideas.

OSAS peoples are kinda stuck!  If they see what the rest of God's Word teaches and come to know the whole counsel of God teaches OSAS is not biblical... theior pride won't allow them to admit it because if they did that they would have to admit they have been wrong for so long.
 

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is not about salvation but about rewards for doing good works while living on Club Earth.

If it is was about salvation as you claim... this does not mean all the other scriptures that say one can lose their salvation are now lies that the Lord someone did not notice that the devil snuck in to His canon.

This is why error occurs when once does not accept the whole counsel of God.

If 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 means one can live in sin and still go to Heaven and only lose a few rewards, then all these other scriptures are lies!  These other scriptures are NOT actually lies, which is how we know 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is not about salvation but about rewards only.

So, that would mean once must consider the other scriptures to be lies, or must be explained away somehow in order to keep one's preconceived ideas about salvation.

If one lives as a child of disobedience they do so at their own peril. 

See my next post below for an article I had on my notes about this...

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Do Good Work (1 Corinthians 3:10–17)

Paul introduces the metaphor of a building under construction in
order to make a new point—do good work. This point is so important to understanding the value of work that it is worth including the passage in its entirety here.

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building on it. Each builder must choose with care how to build on it. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one that has been laid; that foundation is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—the work of each builder will become visible, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each has done. If what has been built on the foun­dation survives, the builder will receive a reward. If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire. (1 Cor. 3:10–15)

This may be the most direct statement of the eternal value of earthly work in all of Scripture. The work we do on earth—to the extent we do it according to the ways of Christ—survives into eternity. Paul is speaking specifically of the work done by the community of the church, which he likens to a temple. Paul compares himself to a “skilled master builder” who has laid the foundation, which is, of course, Christ himself.

Others build on top of this foundation, and each one is responsible for his own work. Paul likens good work to gold, silver, and precious stones, and shabby work to wood, hay, and straw. Though some have tried to assign specific meanings to each of these materials, it is more likely that the difference is simply that some materials have the ability to withstand testing by fire while others do not.

Paul is not making any judgment about any individual’s salvation, for even if anyone’s work fails the test, “the builder will be saved.” This pas­sage is not about the relationship between a believer’s “good works” and his heavenly reward, though it has often been read in that way.

Instead, Paul is concerned with the church as a whole and how its leaders work within the church. If they contribute to the unity of the church, they will be commended. If, however, their ministry results in strife and faction­alism, they are actually provoking God’s wrath, because he passionately protects his living temple from those who would destroy it (vv. 16-17).

Although Paul is writing about the work of building a Christian com­munity, his words apply to all kinds of work. As we have seen, Paul regards Christian work to include the work believers do under secular authority as well as in the church. Whatever our work, it will be evalu­ated impartially by God.

The final assize will be better than any per­formance review, since God judges with perfect justice—unlike human bosses, however just or unjust they may be—and he is able to factor in our intent, our limitations, our motives, our compassion, and his mercy.

God has called all believers to work in whatever circumstances they find themselves, and he has given us specific gifts to fulfill that calling. He expects us to use them responsibly for his purposes, and he will inspect our work. And to the degree that our work is done in excellence, by his gifts and grace, it will become part of God’s eternal kingdom. That should motivate us—even more than our employer’s approval or our paycheck— to do as good a job as we possibly can.

source - https://www.theologyofwork.org/new-testament/1-corinthians/do-good-work-1-cor-310-17

[Vine Abider]

2 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

2 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is not about salvation but about rewards for doing good works while living on Club Earth.

If it is was about salvation as you claim... this does not mean all the other scriptures that say one can lose their salvation are now lies that the Lord someone did not notice that the devil snuck in to His canon.

This is why error occurs when once does not accept the whole counsel of God.

If 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 means one can live in sin and still go to Heaven and only lose a few rewards, then all these other scriptures are lies!  These other scriptures are NOT actually lies, which is how we know 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is not about salvation but about rewards only.

So, that would mean once must consider the other scriptures to be lies, or must be explained away somehow in order to keep one's preconceived ideas about salvation.

If one lives as a child of disobedience they do so at their own peril. 

See my next post below for an article I had on my notes about this...

 

BINGO!  Brother, what you stated regarding that this is something I claim is almost the opposite of what myself and others have been trying to convey! 

That is, NO . . . .  1 Cor 3:10-15 IS NOT ABOUT SALVATION!  It is about accountability and judgment for a believer's works after they receive the gift of eternal life.  THEREFORE THERE ARE REPROCUSSIONS FOR WHAT THE CHILDREN OF GOD DO IN THIS LIFE.

I hope that is clear.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

6 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

So I was inclined to give that up for two main reasons - it wasn't pleasurable and I knew He wasn't pleased with it (and thirdly I knew it was damaging on various levels).

But, based on OSAS teachings... if you continued to smoke the weed you'd still be saved, right?

There are more and more people who otherwise seem to be and sound sincere in their faith that smoke the weed.

Would you tell them they can go to Heaven if they never quit... or do you tell them they will not go to Heaven if they don't quit?

Being high is as drunkenness and the Lord says in His Word that intoxication is one of the things that people do that will cause them to not inherit God's Kingdom.

Do we tell people this scripture is true, or false???

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

3 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

BINGO!  Brother, what you stated regarding that this is something I claim is almost the opposite of what myself and others have been trying to convey! 

That is, NO . . . .  1 Cor 3:10-15 IS NOT ABOUT SALVATION!  It is about accountability and judgment for a believer's works after they receive the gift of eternal life.  THEREFORE THERE ARE REPROCUSSIONS FOR WHAT THE CHILDREN OF GOD DO IN THIS LIFE.

I hope that is clear.

In other words.... if one lives in sin, they will go to hell if they don't repent from their sin and confess it before the Lord.

They will lose THE reward which is spending eternity with the Lord.

1 Cor 3:10-15 does not excuse one's sin and they get to go to Heaven anyway if they live in sin... which is how the OSAS camp uses this scripture.


 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Stan Murff