Any thoughts on this?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

59 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Great - thanks!  And to clarify, when being born-again, does the life of God comes into us?

Yes... but, God created man in His Image which means we have freedom of choice or free will.

God specifically says if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption because sin in the flesh has been condemned

So, if I willingly and knowingly sin, I have to of my own free will choose to turn away from the Lord... so since we know light and darkness cannot mix, that eternal life is no longer active while I'm in sin.

That's not saying God's gift of eternal life is not eternal... it simply means His gift of eternal life is ONLY applicable to those who are abiding in Christ,

John 15:1-10
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Great - thanks!  And to clarify, when being born-again, does the life of God comes into us?

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Yes... 

Thanks, and I understand what else you responded in your answer, but I want to focus specifically on this matter of what being born-again means.  

So one other clarifying question if I may - With the life of God coming into a born-again believer, is it this life that makes us children of God?

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

This is an interesting question and one I've pondered a lot. Some street drugs work in the same general manner as certain psych meds. Some other harmful and addictive substances have a similar thing going. Cocaine used to be in soda and opium and its derivatives were and still are used in medicine. Where do we draw the line between which ones are okay and which ones aren't?

I'd say intent matters but with some catches. We know our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, which we should bear in mind. The potential for medicinal substances doing more harm than good needs to be weighed in.

Absolutely.  We have to be very careful.  Some flesh bodies naturally get addicted, while others can abuse and abuse and never do. Not really fair but such is life.

So, we need to stick to what GOD SAYS and not become like the Pharisees and Sadducees and make up a bunch of LAWS of our own because of our personal opinions.  His yoke is light and I think we need to strive to keep it that way, even if we personally agree with NO ALCOHOL is a good message, if it isn't His.  

  


 

[Marathoner]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:30 PM, Vine Abider said:

And I go out for dinner one week night with a handful of brothers, after we've had a time of fellowship and prayer. Maybe half of them will order a beer.  I don't care for beer any more (used to get me in trouble, and the Lord dealt with that), so I order a diet soda.  We have wonderful fellowship and the Spirit flows among us!

This, of course, is a Romans 14 scenario - one does, but another doesn't.  And if what we have the freedom to do stumbles anyone, then it's a sin.

Indeed. I shared how alcoholic beverages --- a glass of wine or a beer --- give me a headache some time ago on the forum, which is why I don't touch the stuff. If a brother or a sister has a beer or a glass of wine in my company, I'm not bothered by it. I'm only concerned for the sake of brethren who struggle with alcoholism, because I'm all too familiar with what that does to lives.

Diet soda, eh? Pardon me for a moment...



There, all better now. 

A glass of water with a slice of lemon for me. Better yet, a glass of tomato juice spiked with ghost pepper sauce. Yes, that will do! 

[Vine Abider]

6 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Diet soda, eh? Pardon me for a moment...



There, all better now. 

I drink diet because of a blood sugar condition I have and I'm offended by that remark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding 

[Marathoner]

31 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I drink diet because of a blood sugar condition I have and I'm offended by that remark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding 

At least you didn't mention instant coffee.  

We would have wine at the fellowship when we broke bread. Nothing amiss with that. That was when I discovered what a glass of wine will do to my head: migraine. In any case, there were quite a few of us who passed on the wine. 

There's also the matter of alcoholism on both sides of my family. My parents broke that chain, and my father in particular loathed alcohol. He harbored a dim view of those who imbibe, which isn't that unusual if you take into account of the prevalence of alcoholism in the military. He was a teetotaler. He was a first sergeant in Vietnam, and I have no doubt that his view was influenced by drunk soldiers he had to discipline. 

I never had issues with other substances because I abhor anything which induces a loss of control. I avoid narcotic painkillers based upon my experience when I had wisdom teeth pulled out in the Army. The dentist gave me Tylenol 3... I'd rather live with pain, thanks. It helps to have a tolerance for pain, of course. 

There's nothing wrong with medication. The Lord never forbid such things to me. I have my reasons to steer clear of certain things, and that is sufficient for me.  

[Starise]

I resent the association of OSAS to other groups and beliefs. Like @Vine Abider, I studied the bible and had not heard the term OSAS.

We simply believe when God saves a person it's permanent. A person can "know the way" but never commit to it, and I think these are the ones who fall away.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

15 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So one other clarifying question if I may - With the life of God coming into a born-again believer, is it this life that makes us children of God?

What makes us children of God is IF we answer the Father's call to abide in Christ having turned away from our old life of sin and walk with Him in newness of life

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

This is what baptism is supposed to be about... making a covenant with the Lord, a public declaration of faith, a commitment to put off the old man and put on the new man and to walk in newness of life

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are called to cooperate with the Lord, to be co-laboroers with Him.  He made us in His Image, so we have free will... the Lord desires for us to willingly choose to turn away from our old life of sin and come abide In Christ and not turn away, ever!

1 Corinthians 3:9
We are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

It's God's work, His power, His ability... but WE have to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him in the Light.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Getting born again is the introduction and the starting point and if one trely believes and dies moments after getting born again, yes they would go to Heaven.

But few die immediately after getting born again so it remains to be seen... will WE to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him abiding In Him until the end of our lives so that we might be saved???

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Endure to the end as in... DON'T fall away!

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

What makes us children of God is IF we answer the Father's call to abide in Christ having turned away from our old life of sin and walk with Him in newness of life

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

This is what baptism is supposed to be about... making a covenant with the Lord, a public declaration of faith, a commitment to put off the old man and put on the new man and to walk in newness of life

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are called to cooperate with the Lord, to be co-laboroers with Him.  He made us in His Image, so we have free will... the Lord desires for us to willingly choose to turn away from our old life of sin and come abide In Christ and not turn away, ever!

1 Corinthians 3:9
We are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

It's God's work, His power, His ability... but WE have to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him in the Light.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Getting born again is the introduction and the starting point and if one trely believes and dies moments after getting born again, yes they would go to Heaven.

But few die immediately after getting born again so it remains to be seen... will WE to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him abiding In Him until the end of our lives so that we might be saved???

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Endure to the end as in... DON'T fall away!

 

I'm good with most of what you stated. So how are children fathered humanly speaking -  is that different than with our heavenly Father? And when in the life of any child, do they stop being children of their father . . . when they misbehave?

Why did Jesus come?   

"I am come that they might have life." "I in them and You in Me." "Father . . . I have made Your name known to them"  (John 10:10, 17:23, 25-26)

Without life, there are no children (humanly or heavenly speaking).  All children have their father's life, even if they misbehave.

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I'm good with most of what you stated. So how are children fathered humanly speaking -  is that different than with our heavenly Father? And when in the life of any child, do they stop being children of their father . . . when they misbehave?

Why did Jesus come?   

"I am come that they might have life." "I in them and You in Me." "Father . . . I have made Your name known to them"  (John 10:10, 17:23, 25-26)

Without life, there are no children (humanly or heavenly speaking).  All children have their father's life, even if they misbehave.

Satan is going into the lake of Fire, and he was perfect until iniquity was found in him

All souls belong to God. 

 We are made a little lower than the angels. There are fallen angels in chains awaiting the lake of fire for disobeying  

So, do you believe there is somehow a difference between us and them or don't you believe angels are the sons of God?