Any thoughts on this?

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, Sparks said:

If you choose to wrestle and worry about your salvation, that's up to you.  I know am secure in my salvation and don't have to worry about it.  I don't see how we will ever agree on this topic, so good luck with your theory. 

I am out. 

WHERE HAVE I EVER SAID I AM WRESTLE or WORRY ABOUT MY SALVATION? 

NEVER AND NO WHERE,

SO MAKING A STATEMENT THAT I AM CHOOSING TO WRESTLE, IS THAT A TRUTH OR A LIE?   

 

[Vine Abider]

10 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

REALLY, THEY ARE NOT DIRECT AND OUTRIGHT??  as for 'close to slandering'??  HOW ABOUT COMPLETELY SLANDERING?

 

 

Neither STAN NOR MYSELF HAS EVER SAID  "ONE SIN AND LOSE SALVATION"

though WE BOTH SAY  YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION
 

We say YOU MUST ABIDE in the covenant made with GOD

We say - God says 
If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him
aka in heaven Judgment seat of Christ
for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

48The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke.
That will judge him on the last day 
that would be AT THE GWTJ.  And who stands at the GWTJ?  NOT those who followed Christ to heaven

 

Sparks had asked me what happens to those who have mocked God by not abiding in Him I said they die and have 1000 years to get their names written in the book of life RATHER than Following Him to heaven and returning with Him

That is EXACTLY WHAT THOSE VERSES SAY

I even give the definition of ACCEPT

ACCEPT
2983. lambanó 
Strong's Concordance
lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Definition: to take, receive
Usage: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.
HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) –

properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō

("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.

You hear - if you sin one time you go to hell

I give some Gods words from OLD TEST 

16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
 

I put forth more OLD TEST Scripture

25And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:

26And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

27Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

28And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together,

 

I say 
AS LONG as they have not turned away, He will not turn from them.  THANK THE LORD GOD for that!!!

 

I put forth NEW COVENANT forgiveness of sins

7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

 

I put forth OSAS promises life and that goes against what is written

21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

22Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

 

I wonder why it doesn't matter that what is written about a doctrine promising life being a stumbling block because it doesn't make the wicked turn from their wicked way

 

I put forth NEW TEST showing salvation lost
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

HE sarcastically put forth 
You are saved by the Lord, and then he kicks you to the curb to manage your own affairs from then on, because now you can save yourself? 

and

Irrevocable means the gift is 'incapable of being recalled or revoked; [it is] unchangeable; irreversible; unalterable.'

To whom is whomever he grants a gift, which is anyone Born Again and Saved.

I say  But it isn't HIM that takes ANYTHING back.  HE REMAINS the SAME.  He remains FAITHFUL to the 'contract'.   

He puts forth 

It would be pretty ridiculous if Jesus required you to handle things you could not handle before, as salvation does not grant a sin-free life and we cannot resist certain sins.  And if you think you are sin-free as a Christian, you are mistaken.  There is a reason why we pray to God to lead us from temptation.  It's because we can be easily tempted into sin, and some sin is as simple as a thought. 

to which I reply
WE ARE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD, not a lower one, having received the Holy Spirit than those who ARE ONLY UNDER THE LAW. 

to which he replies

That's just it, we are not under the law, yet we somehow need to keep the law?  And, yes, it is contrary to the scripture.

So, why not describe how this loss of Salvation happens?  Give me an example, and then how you regain salvation?

To which I reply
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

How does it come back?  

The dead will rise when Christ returns with the LIVING and they have 1000 years to work to get their name in the book of life.  If they do that they go from being dead to LIVING aka operational in the ways of God. 

AND IF YOU GO BACK TO THE TOP OF THE PAGE, YOU WILL FIND THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THIS VERY THING

he says

OK, so you are walking a long one day minding your own business, and BOOM, you lose salvation.  In this case because you looked at someone lustfully. 

You are saying you have to try to EARN the thing you couldn't earn, later?

TO WHICH I SAY WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS VERY MUCH OPPOSED TO SIN ONCE LOSE SALVATION

Is that WILLFULLY sinning?  Is that turning away from God to follow after the ways of the world instead?  Is that choosing as your master the lusts of the flesh?  Sounds like a sin that would make one repent because the Holy Spirit would send a conviction upon the soul.  

And 'earn it'?  Since there is no way for any of us to become the Son of God and to be crucified and become the Lamb of God... using the word 'EARN' doesn't work on any level.  Just Repent and ask forgiveness.  And THANK GOD you don't have to keep a flock of animals and go get the best one and slit it throat and confess your sins to a priest, but can boldly go into the Holy of Holies yourself...through the blood of the Lamb of God

How about 'deliver' your soul?

"Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul." Ezekiel 33:9 KJV

he says
You bet.  Remember, you said we could lose it, not me, and in our scenario you lost it.  So, it was willful.

You said we had to work for it for 1000 years to get it back.  That is also know as earning it. 

I don't think this is even close to the correct interpretation. 

TO WHICH I SAY (and you should go back to the top of the post again to refer to the Scripture)

'I still say the words of God say we can lose it

Stan says ….correct in your assessment…

he says
So, I guess you have never sinned since being saved?  How special for you.  It's too bad no one else can.  Only Jesus pulled off a sin-free life, but somehow you can now do it too?  

Forgive me if I doubt you.

and reply to me

If the Bible is never in conflict with itself, and scripture directly addresses God never revoking his Gifts, then Salvation (which is a gift) won't be revoked.  You cannot lose it once if you have it.

I am just trying to figure out what you think happens once you have sinned, and allegedly lost your salvation. 

Your scriptures do not counter Romans 11:29 in this matter.  Since it can't counter it and the Bible does not conflict with itself, you might the one misinterpreting. 

So I give the Covenants 

he says

I am just trying to figure out what you think happens once you have sinned, and allegedly lost your salvation. 

to which I reply

It isn't ONCE you have sinned, LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN so

you don't EVER WRITE IT like I have EVER ONCE 

                SAID or made you think YOU CAN'T HAVE A SINGLE SIN, OK? 

            but you can't fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

So, AS YOU SEE IT

CAN YOU WORSHIP THE BEAST AND STILL BE ONE OF THE ALIVE AND REMAINING OR NOT?

then he says

According to your theory, if you are 'still saved' then you could not have sinned since the day of your salvation, because if you had sinned just one tiny time, you would have lost your salvation. 

I am afraid that is how the syllogism adds up whether you said so or not, unless you are saying you are not saved any more because you did sin, or never were saved or something like that.  That would change the math equation, too. 

Now with Stan, I never really got an answer about his theories, but in either case you would both have to remain sin-free to maintain your salvation, according to your own theories and statements. 

I wish you the best of luck with that because I don't think any of us, saved or not, can remain in an absolutely sin-free life while we exist in the flesh.  It is impossible for everyone, except Jesus. 

my reply
And you think I am closer to you than Stan?  Stan and I are as close to being in complete agreement with each other as humanly possible.  And we both oppose you 100%.  

You ASSIGN to me a theory that stems completely from your own imagination, and then say I am further from Stan than you are.  When will the lies stop?
 

SO YOU TELL ME, WHO IS DOING WHAT TO WHOM?
 

I don't have time to read through all that at this point. As said, it was in all likelihood a misunderstanding.* But I think once someone calls another believer out as lying, that is escalating things beyond the scope of this Christian environment.

Let's all check ourselves constantly, and see if we are keeping ourselves in the love of God as we respond to each other.

* Two suggestions. Choose first to believe it was simply a misunderstanding, and then perhaps wait awhile before responding.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

8 hours ago, Sparks said:

Or you must.  Keep ignoring Romans 11:29.  Cherry pick over it. 

 

Romans 11:29
the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

That's a great verse!  I also applies to the fact that God created man in His Own Image... meaning we have free will to accept Him or reject Him.

When one gets born again and starts walking with the Lord they are saved.

But, if they choose to turn away from the Lord and go live in sin it's not the Lord taking their salvation away from them!

No no, it's THEM choosing to throw their salvation away by turning away from the Lord to go back to sin.

Glad we got that all cleared up... yes, Romans 11:29 is a great verses when the rest of the counsel of God is considered.

But, not so great of a very if pulled out of it's context to try and make OSAS seem true as though one can reject God, live in sin after getting born again and still go to Heaven.


 

[Sparks]

11 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

 

Romans 11:29
the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

That's a great verse!  I also applies to the fact that God created man in His Own Image... meaning we have free will to accept Him or reject Him.

When one gets born again and starts walking with the Lord they are saved.

But, if they choose to turn away from the Lord and go live in sin it's not the Lord taking their salvation away from them!

No no, it's THEM choosing to throw their salvation away by turning away from the Lord to go back to sin.

Glad we got that all cleared up... yes, Romans 11:29 is a great verses when the rest of the counsel of God is considered.

But, not so great of a very if pulled out of it's context to try and make OSAS seem true as though one can reject God, live in sin after getting born again and still go to Heaven.
 

You might want to be sure about what repentance means there.  Repentance means a change of heart which leads to a change of direction. God won't repent concerning the gifts he gives, so he won't change his mind about them.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

18 minutes ago, Sparks said:

You might want to be sure about what repentance means there.  Repentance means a change of heart which leads to a change of direction. God won't repent concerning the gifts he gives, so he won't change his mind about them.

As I was saying... God is not the One turning away from those that go in to sin... they are turning away from Him!

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

One cannot abide IN Christ... and do sinful things!
 

[Sparks]

11 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

As I was saying... God is not the One turning away from those that go in to sin... they are turning away from Him!

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

One cannot abide IN Christ... and do sinful things!
 

Do you understand what repentance means in Romans, or not?

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Let's hear your version, and I'll compare it to scripture and see if it's right or not.

You seem to not want to comments on scripture that the OSAS camp cannot explain away.

I did answer your query and here it is again...

As I was saying... God is not the One turning away from those that go in to sin... they are turning away from Him!

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

One cannot abide IN Christ... and do sinful things!

The OSAS crowd's claim is if a Christian lives in sin they are still saved and are still in right standing with the Lord which is not biblical.

The OSAS crowd side steps and dances around the whole counsel of God that demonstrates one can NOT live in sin and remain in the Body of Christ at the same time because THEY ARE THE ONES WHO TURNED AWAY FROM GOD!

As I was saying... God is not the One turning away from those that go in to sin... they are turning away from Him!

Hang in their bud... you'll get it someday



 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Daniel Marsh]

skipped dt hee  I am  very physcally sick today

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Let's hear your version, and I'll compare it to scripture and see if it's right or not.

You seem to not want to comments on scripture that the OSAS camp cannot explain away.

I did answer your query and here it is again...

As I was saying... God is not the One turning away from those that go in to sin... they are turning away from Him!

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

One cannot abide IN Christ... and do sinful things!

The OSAS crowd's claim is if a Christian lives in sin they are still saved and are still in right standing with the Lord which is not biblical.

The OSAS crowd side steps and dances around the whole counsel of God that demonstrates one can NOT live in sin and remain in the Body of Christ at the same time because THEY ARE THE ONES WHO TURNED AWAY FROM GOD!

As I was saying... God is not the One turning away from those that go in to sin... they are turning away from Him!

Hang in their bud... you'll get it someday



 

Are you saying that God is not the one that is turning away from those in sin.. but they are turning away from God?  (you only said it 3 times in the post above . . . it's an old marketing tactic, but it does work!)

Believe it or not, bro, I actually agree with that statement!  God doesn't turn away from us, because He see His Son and His blood!*

And let me throw in my favorite oft repeated statements: born-again believers have God's life in them, making them His children . . . and children can't be unborn, nor does God (like any good father) throw them in the trash when they misbehave.

Why?  I'm glad you asked that question - BECAUSE THEY'RE HIS CHILDREN WHO CAN'T BE UNBORN!!!

 

* "Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into your hearts crying, 'Daddy!' 'Father!'"   Gal 4:6

"When I see the blood, I will pass over you!"  Exo  12:13

"As He is, so are we in this world."  1 John 4:17

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

But, God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save  us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness.  In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

To say this is not true is mocking God, and the Lord has a problem with that!

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

And so... folks can do chimichanga word salads all they want to attempt to explain away Gal 6:7,8 but it won't work as this is the final nail in the coffin of the OSAS message.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Stan Murff