70 Weeks of Daniel

[Triton57]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No time is cut short as those who refer to this think, lets see God gives us Prophesies that state the 70th week will be 7 years and that the time of trouble will be 1260 days, Gi foreknows all and fore plans all, He never has to change His designed plans. What Jesus is saying in Matt. 24 is that Hey, these plans we spoke of in Daniel 12, they are only going to last for a Time, Times and 1/2 time because we LONG AGO understood id we allowed this Anti=Christ tyrant to rule for longer than 1260 days no life on earth would be let, so we decided long ago to return and end his rule after 1260 days. So, what does Jesus showing up and killing this Man/Beast do? It ends his life and SHORTENS the tribulations on earth. Jesus was never saying, I am going to shorten my pre planed 1260 day tribulation period. That is just men not understanding how prophesy works tbh.

 

As I attempted to lay out in the Tribulation Nuance post, the cutting short is about a very specific time. I don't think it's talking about the 70th week or the 3 1/2 years of the dragon's tribulation on the saints being cut short. God can't change His plans, they're already completed in eternity, we're just stuck in space-time thinking linearly. The cutting short that is clearly stated is directly related to the time of Jacob's trouble that they will be supernaturally protected from after a short time.

 

This unparalleled time is the start of the 3 1/2 year tribulation, but it is not the whole of it. There is no stated period of time for Jacob's trouble to encompass so the cutting short isn't a statement of a set period being changed to be shorter. It is a statement that Jacob's trouble will not and could not last for the whole 3 1/2 years of the antichrist's tribulation on the saints because none in Judea who refused to bow to him would survive that long of a time. So for those in Judea we see the unparalleled great tribulation is interrupted by them being protected from the dragon in the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. Revelation 12:13-16

[Triton57]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The 6th Seal happens before the Troubles start in Rev. 8 with the Asteroid. Question, does Joel 2:31s prophecy mean Daniel lived during the Rev. 8 asteroid? Of course not, you can foretell something without it being that same period of time. Jesus, just before God's Wrath falls does the same thing in Heaven, he opens a "figurative scroll" that has 7 binding wax seal on it, not one Judgment Trump can sound until all 7 are off and the decree can be read aloud. The 6th seal is Jesus telling the Pre Trib Raptured Church in heaven what God's wrath will soon bring to earth, as soon as the last seal comes off the scroll of Judgment Trumps. Just like Joel 2:31 foretold it. The 6th Seal will be the DOTL when it hits, an it will cover a 42 month period of time which is the same amount of time given unto the A.C. to rule on earth.

 

I agree, the seals are all broken before the scroll can be opened and the judgments occur during the 7 trumpets and 7 bowls of God's wrath. I also agree Joel 2:31 references the 6th seal. What scripture explains differently what Yeshua stated?

 

Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Triton57]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The 144,000 just like "The Woman" in  Rev. 12 is a code see Gen. 37:9 it solves the Woman code. The 144,000 is a simple number code. The number 12 = fulness and 10 = Completeness so 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 simply means ALL Israel who repents. If God had said He was going to judge Rome or this whole world the Church would have been seen as traitors, so they used Babylon, a dead city, which made Romans laugh I imagine. Also, if God had used Israel saying they were going to rule with God the Romans also would have seen that as treason, so God, who wrote Revelation Himself, instead placed codes for Israel, as in the 144,000 or the Woman. So, in Rev. 7 we actually see he 1/3 Jews (Zech. 13:89) who repent fleeing Judea (God say seal them, means they come to Christ) and being protected by God (Hurt not the Sea, Trees nor Earth until thy are sealed and thus protected) because the Rev. 8 Trumps do what? Hurt the Earth, Sea and the Trees. So, this is Israel fleeing after thy see the 1290 AoD which I have showed comes 30 days before the 1260. So, now Rev. 6 being Prophetic in nature makes sense, just afterwards the Jews Flee Judea just before God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8 via the Asteroid Impact. Zech. 13:8-9 and 14:1 shows the exact same thing we see Israel repent then one vs. later the DOTL arrives.

 

There may be symbology in the numbers, but I don't know how many 1/3 of Israel will be. I take a plain reading that 144,000 is 12,000 of each tribe as stated. Whether that makes up all of the 1/3 or not I can't say. I concur this is before the DOTL.

[Triton57]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Besides, the 5th Seal and Rev. 20:4 make it impossible for anyone to get raptured to heaven during the 70th week. The 5th Seal is prophetic in nature, meaning Jesus s telling us what the Martyrs will be thinking in their hearts after they die, BEFOREE THEY DIE (Smile). We know thus because Jesus tells these Martyrs that they MUST WAIT to get vengeance until all of their brothers have been killed in like manner, meaning after the Beasts 42 month rule of terror on earth. Likewise Rev. 20:4 shows that those Martyrs only get raised and judged AFTER Jesus' 2nd coming. So, those multitude seen in Rev. 7 can not be from the 70th week, they are the Church Age Saint (Pre Trib Rapture)

 

That is one interpretation of it for sure. I agree the fifth seal covers all the dead in Christ martyred for their faith. I don't see how that means it's impossible for anyone to get caught up in the 70th week. You are stating things outside the scope of scripture that this is forethought of the yet living but will die martyrs if I understand what you're saying. I'm trying to take it at face value. When the seal is opened, those who were slain for the testimony of Christ to that point are told to wait until the remainder will be killed as they were. This is just before the sixth seal, which we see in the Olivet discourse places this likely at the time of Jacob's trouble when more will be killed and before the sixth seal heralding God's wrath and before Yeshua states the elect will be caught up at the sixth seal.

 

I also don't see how Revelation 20:4 precludes being caught up during the 70th week. It simply states that after Yeshua has defeated the armies at Armageddon at His coming, those who died after the catching away at the sixth seal and before He came, the duration of the remaining 1,230 days of the antichrists reign on earth, will be resurrected and reign with Him for 1,000 years. Now if you call the whole week the tribulation and anyone who dies in that time martyrs, then I can see your point, but I know of no scripture tying the catching away before the week, only scriptures tying it do after the time of Jacob's trouble around the time of the sign of the sixth seal when Christ comes and every eye sees Him and hides from the wrath of the Lamb.

[Triton57]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

TBH, I think prophecy in general confuses people, especially if their truths have been engrained over time, as coming from other men instead of direct from God. The 2nd coming and the Rapture are not the same event. Both the Rapture and A.C. must happen before Gods wrath falls.

The Rapture can be seen in Rev. 14:14 in a FLASHBACK. The Wheat (Israel) are gathered at the very end the Wicked Grapes killed at the very end but Jesus from upon a cloud harvests the church 7 years before. People need to get past this 2nd coming mis application of words. Its the 2nd Advent, Jesus is not limited unto two comings. Jesus will rapture the Church Pre Trib, the A.C. makes his 7 Year Agreement about then same time THEN WHST COMES LATER? The Middle of the week Wrath. Its east math my friend. Don't ever get an idea and run with it to the point it blocks you from seeing the bigger picture. I am simply amazed at the amount of people who can not see the Pre Trib Rapture. I can not trust other thins hey tell me until I have tried them at every angle because the Pre Trib is so obvious that I have to take a step back and wonder WHY?

 

Yes, certainly ideas can be engrained over time, only parroted from other teachers instead of from God's Word. I'm glad you can see that, a lot of people don't self-examine very often and are tied to one particular view they've built their whole understanding around and it seems so solid. That's the beauty of God's Word, it's given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. I've found myself changing many times, having to re-think my pre-conceived notions or things learned from other people to try and get at the truth of the matter. It's a journey I will be on until He comes.

 

I agree the catching away and the revealing of the man of sin must come before the wrath of God. That's the most basic view of the pre-wrath perspective, just by the name. That's why I started calling my view pre-wrath and not mid-trib because the focus of the catching away is to escape the wrath of God coming on the whole earth and all that dwell on it. The pre-trib view ties their timing to the tribulation, which is poorly understood by most and I typically hear the 7-year tribulation, which makes no scriptural sense.

 

I see Revelation 14:14-20 as a flashback as well, a kind of view of the fulness of the Gentiles pre-wrath being reaped because the harvest of the earth is ripe. Then the second reaper casting what he reaps into the winepress of the wrath of God. It's a picture of what happens at the dividing line of God's wrath, the righteous before and the wicked after. This fits with my view as well where the man of sin is revealed, Jacob's trouble begins and Israel is saved, Yeshua comes in glory at the sixth seal and gathers the elect before the trumpets begin to pour out the wrath of God on the earth.

 

Again what I don't see in Revelation 14:14 is the harvest mentioned in relationship to the week. If one has their framework decided in their mind, that can certainly be assumed, and often is. The concept of the "second coming" has no bearing on my perspective.

 

It's funny because I'm likewise amazed at how many can't see the pre-wrath catching away. Every time I look at the scriptures on this topic I see passage after passage, precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little that all point to it. But I suppose that's why God wrote it that way in Israel's case. I'm open to being show the precepts and lines I'm missing because I'll never say I have it all figured out, that's when I usually get humbled.

[Triton57]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The first 69 weeks had a Beast over Israel, Babylon's 70 years and Israel not repenting TIMED the judgment by 7 as the Law requires. So, and angel told Daniel it was now a judgment of 70 times 7 or 490 years, under each year Israel had a Beast over them in order to bring them unto repentance. When God rent the temple everything stopped, God no longer saw Israel as a nation. The 70 weeks stopped. It wont start again unto Israel signs the agreement (Covenant) with Israel. God will kick off that 70th week Judgment when Israel essentially gives aways control of her land to the E.U. by joining the E.U. The 70 weeks are all designed by God to bring Israel unto repentance. Israel did many thins to cause this, serving false gods, not killing every woman and child when they conquered Canaan Land, thus their gods were soon served by Israel.

 

That's a good reasoning. I suppose I'm less inclined to name the EU, or anyone really, as being that power over Israel because I can envision it playing out several different ways. For instance the whole of Daniel 9:27 is centered around the man of sin starting the week and starting the tribulation half-way through. We see in Revelation 12 that the dragon is the ultimate power behind it and the ultimate personification of the horns and mountains and other prophetic associations of the nations that were over Israel. In fact they seem to grow from that, which is why the EU or WEU or ENPI, etc. are high on the list of possibilities as they would seem to come from the Roman origins.

 

But that ultimate power behind the beast over them is the dragon, the final beast that will ever be over Israel. He is deceptive and crafty, a trait we are warned will be part of the end time deception. The dragon can use any puppets he wants to bring about his plans. One option would be to use Israel against herself, seeming to fulfill the Messianic prophecies they are still looking for from the Old Testament deceive Israel and turn families against each other. Deceiving them to worship him and possibly even those who don't know their scriptures and will be deceived by this christ-wannabe that doesn't come from the heavens when he comes.

 

I'm open to any way it manifests, but for sure a confirmation of the covenant to restore rebuild the temple and restore the daily sacrifice, whatever instrument that comes through, will have my undivided attention, unless I find some scripture stating I'll be gone before that happens. But that won't stop me from watching.

 

Which brings up another point. We're told to watch that we aren't taken unaware. If the catching away is before anything that we would be watching for happens, why are we told to watch so many times in relation to Christ's return?

[Triton57]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

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It would seem the first 69 weeks are related to restoring Israel to the land. We've seen over the past century how Israel has come into the land and through several wars taken it, but they still don't have all of Jerusalem. I would posit as opposed to giving away of the land, that the 70th week would start as soon as Israel controls both Jerusalem and the temple. That would seem to be more consistent with the historical application of the 70 weeks, but I could be wrong.

Just the opposite, its about Israel sinning against God and thus why Israel did not take the Gospel unto the whole world. They succeeded in birthing the messiah but failed at understanding how to worship God in faith. The land overall is not the point, its disobedience, it is God's land, not theirs to give away. Thus they will get the full land (Euphrates to Egypt) during the 1000 year reign.

 

I can see that, it just seems that "seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city" would mean the fulfillment of that would have to be tied to Israel in the land because that combination is what the seventy weeks are determined for.

[Triton57]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

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Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened(MID POINT), and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then (1260 days later) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What causes you to add 1,260 days to the signs of the sixth seal?

Those are not the 6th Seal, those are the Trumpet Judgments that the 6th Seal FORETOLD. God's Wrath falls in the exact middle of the week, He will only allow the Anti-Christ to go forth conquering at that time Understanding the Seals is key, both the first 5 Seals and the 6th Seal cover the same time frame, the first 5 are foretelling the Anti-Christs 42 month reign, the 6th seal is God's soon to come wrath. The 7 Seal releases it all over in Rev. 8 where the Asteroid hits. The Anti-Christ in Daniel 12:7 is foretold to have a 1260 day reign, it all ties together once you understand that Anti-Christs reign and God's Wrath are prophetic utterances covering the exact same time period, Trumps 1-7 with the 7th Trump delivering the 7 Vials which is the 3rd Woe.

 

Ok, so you see Matthew 24:30 as Revelation 19:11-21? Would the gathering in Matthew 24:31 not be the catching away in your view and instead Revelation 20:4-6 resurrection? I would take it then the one end of heaven to the other is considered an expression and not literally in the skies, just all over the earth?

[Triton57]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

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Yes, there are 50% of the church who will be shut out of the marriage of the Lamb (Matthew 25:1-13) and cast into great tribulation (Revelation 2:22) because they did not repent of their idolatry and had no relationship with Christ.

Mostly correct, except the 50 percent simply doesn't have the "Oil" in them, meaning the Holy Spirit in their lives God will not stay where Willful sin lingers. So, you get the thrust of it. Ever think about how Matt. 24:36-51 has the exact same ratio? One is TAKEN and one is LEFT. I think Jesus told the Disciples about the Rapture in his own way, but only gave the understanding to Paul in full, thus when they wrote it they naturally though it had to be at the very end, when in reality it should have been inserted after vs. 14. How do you get this but not understand the Pre Trib Rapture brother?

 

As I mentioned in the Tribulation Nuance post, I think there's a lot the different timing views agree on, it's just the definition of key terms that causes division and strife. I understand the pre-trib view, I just don't agree with it at this time like I used to before self-study. I don't see how the point of the parable of the 10 virgins and the church being cast into great tribulation would be a definitive sign of a pre-trib catching away of the bride.

 

The only real difference as far as timing between you as I as I understand it revolves around the catching away being before the week or at the sixth seal, the DOTL or the day of Christ for believers. It is a time of both destruction and wrath for those who reject Yeshua and the blessed hope for them that love God. Both of our views are before that time, yours is just 3.5 years before and mine is immediately before and realistically part of it.

[Triton57]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Church will not be here, an Hour in Revelation always means 1260 days. In Rev. 18:8-10 Babylon is judged in ONE DAY and in ONE HOUR, both means 1260 days, the "Day" of the Lord is 1260 days and the Hour is shown i Rev. 17:12 to mean 1260 days, because the 10 kings are said to rule with the Beasts for exactly "One Hour" and we know the Beast rules for 42 months or 1260 days.

Most of these Atheists who do not believe in God are not "Worshiping the Dragon and the Beast per se, its just the way God sees men. All men, right now who do not serve God is seen  as serving Satan, see my point? Stealing, Lying, Greed, Anger, Sexual Perverts etc. etc. are all of Satan so they LOVE Satan over God so they "Worship the Dragon". But the truth is they do not believe in Satan, as we know.

I think thus "Mark" is put forth to simply do what the Leftie Libs are trying to do now, stop all buying and selling to the point where they can bring "Social Justice" to the world via leverage, in other words if you do not buy into their confirmatory ideals they will make it impossible for you to buy and sell, so you better buy into Abortion, Homosexuality, et al or we will destroy you. These Libs Atheists will be all in on that, LOL.

 

I don't think I had thought about taking the destruction of Jerusalem as anything but sudden destruction. It can't be the full 42 months of his reign because the DOTL doesn't start until after the start of the great tribulation, but it could be close I suppose. I'm not sure I'm ready to make that connection personally though.

 

Do you think people with no belief when confronted with death will not worship the beast, whether or not they mean it in their hearts? Regardless the mark is the second death sentence for them that do.

 

Just like the tightening of the noose currently underway through systems like potentially FedNow or other such interconnected systems, I think the mark may take the framework being built today to be used for the dragon's purposes. They're trying to be able to track and restrict purchases based on social agendas while at the same time looking to further digitize currency so bartering will be all that's left for those who don't buy into the system. Taking control of that and turning the knobs from the popular social agenda of the day to anyone without the mark would likely be a small task once that infrastructure is in place.