The Difficult Sayings Of Jesus

[Starise]

To a new believer or an unbeliever, some of the statements Jesus made can be reason to scratch our heads wondering what He actually was trying to put across, and it's no secret that a lot of what He said was intentionally cryptic..

I remember the first time I read the passage about Jesus where He stated we should pluck our eye out or cut off our hand if it causes us to sin, for it is better to lose an eye or hand than go to hell. Whaaaaaaat??????

I immediately went to the visual mental picture and the thought of it turned me off.

Some people will read this passage and say, He's lost it. This Jesus character is just weird. Quite honestly, He could have appeared to be a little unusual. Difficult I suppose to be God in human form and not be different.He was also magnetic to those who He called, and in other circles at home he was just an average guy. Mainly because I don't believe He did most of His miracles or started teaching until Later. If you had been in His presence and seen Him Heal or feed the 5000 or speak, there would likely be no question.

The statement I mentioned that Jesus said, well I have pondered that one a lot since. If one of us was caught up in a serious sin that involved the eyes, and if we could be in hell for even 30 minutes, then I believe the statement He made would begin to make some sense. Most tend to underestimate our sins in a very big way. Jesus was making a point for how serious sin and hell is. From that perspective it makes sense to me.

Another statement of Jesus  the disciples wondered about was when He said the temple would be destroyed and He would raise it in three days.

Jesus was referring to his body and rising from the dead three days after His death by crucifixion.

And then we have the parables Jesus taught where He admitted that what he was saying was intentionally kept from those who were not intended to 'get' the message.

 

[FJK]

22 minutes ago, Starise said:

And then we have the parables Jesus taught where He admitted that what he was saying was intentionally kept from those who were not intended to 'get' the message.

Intentionally kept from them or told to them in a manner they could understand it without deep spiritual and religious development first?

[Mr. M]

38 minutes ago, Starise said:

I remember the first time I read the passage about Jesus where He stated we should pluck our eye out or cut off our hand if it causes us to sin, for it is better to lose an eye or hand than go to hell. Whaaaaaaat??????

Here the Lord is expressing the gravity of being

shepherds of His sheep to the apostles.

Zechariah 11:17 “Woe to the worthless shepherd,
Who leaves the flock!
A sword shall be against his arm
And against his right eye;
His arm shall completely wither,
And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”

 

41 minutes ago, Starise said:

To a new believer

Compare:

Luke 17:

1 Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come,

but woe to him through whom they do come! 

2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck,

and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

"Little Ones" includes the new believer!

1 John 2:

12 I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.

[NConly]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:44 PM, Starise said:

To a new believer or an unbeliever, some of the statements Jesus made can be reason to scratch our heads wondering what He actually was trying to put across, and it's no secret that a lot of what He said was intentionally cryptic..

I remember the first time I read the passage about Jesus where He stated we should pluck our eye out or cut off our hand if it causes us to sin, for it is better to lose an eye or hand than go to hell. Whaaaaaaat??????

I immediately went to the visual mental picture and the thought of it turned me off.

Some people will read this passage and say, He's lost it. This Jesus character is just weird. Quite honestly, He could have appeared to be a little unusual. Difficult I suppose to be God in human form and not be different.He was also magnetic to those who He called, and in other circles at home he was just an average guy. Mainly because I don't believe He did most of His miracles or started teaching until Later. If you had been in His presence and seen Him Heal or feed the 5000 or speak, there would likely be no question.

The statement I mentioned that Jesus said, well I have pondered that one a lot since. If one of us was caught up in a serious sin that involved the eyes, and if we could be in hell for even 30 minutes, then I believe the statement He made would begin to make some sense. Most tend to underestimate our sins in a very big way. Jesus was making a point for how serious sin and hell is. From that perspective it makes sense to me.

Another statement of Jesus  the disciples wondered about was when He said the temple would be destroyed and He would raise it in three days.

Jesus was referring to his body and rising from the dead three days after His death by crucifixion.

And then we have the parables Jesus taught where He admitted that what he was saying was intentionally kept from those who were not intended to 'get' the message.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by NConly

[Marathoner]

4 hours ago, FJK said:

Intentionally kept from them or told to them in a manner they could understand it without deep spiritual and religious development first?

This was intentional.

And the disciples came up and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” And Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,

You shall keep on listening, but shall not understand;
And you shall keep on looking, but shall not perceive;
For the heart of this people has become dull,
With their ears they scarcely hear,
And they have closed their eyes,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their heart, and return,
And I would heal them.’
(Matthew 13:10-15 NASB)

Recall how the Lord explained the meaning of His parables afterward when the disciples asked, but He only revealed this to them. 

[Tristen]

I think God includes difficult passages to test one's sincerity (whether supposed believers or non-believers).

Examples include;

- Forcing a woman to marry her rapist for 30 pieces of silver

or 

- It being permissible to beat a slave if the slave survives for two days before dying

or

- Letting Israelites take sex slaves from the children of conquered peoples

or

- Jesus encouraging believers to self-amputate

 

The Bible seems to say all of these - but actually says none of these. But one has to look a little deeper to find the true meanings. By contrast, those who are not sincere in their search for God will happily accept the apparent meanings at face value - and use these misunderstandings as excuses to walk away from God; feeding into their own anti-God confirmation biases. They are pretenders - wasting time and Christian resources.

I think the inclusion of these is intentional - to get such people out of the way of those who might be sincerely open to receiving the Gospel.

 

 

[com7fy8]

I need to be humble . . . not try to show off that I am right and know more than others.

And I can be very quick to try to explain away what Jesus says, to find a way to get out of it.

But . . . that can have me miss out. And what God means is very good and desirable. I mean, His purpose is so great and good.

Even tragedies can be used for His good.

But does He have us mutilating our bodies? What He means is what He will do with us, I would say. He will make it good for us.

How I see things can be the eye which needs to be plucked out. How I can see in my immoral imagining can need to go.

Paranoia can have me cursing people with my suspicion when I do not even know what really is true. And in paranoia I can imagine bad ways of handling what I think is a problem. So, I can see people the wrong way, plus see wrongly about how to handle what I imagine to be problems.

So, Jesus means anti-love things which we need to get rid of.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice." (Ephesians 4:31)

All these things can effect or be the result of how we see things and people - - the wrong way, not with compassion with hope >

Love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

We need how love has us seeing 

[Your closest friendnt]

The word "Hell" it was never part of Jesus vocabulary, not even the disciples and definitely not Paul's. 

It appeared in some of the English translations to comunicate something and to relate something in their own culture.  

This word is not found in any of the original texts. 

It seems to be equivalent to the word "Sheol" which Jesus did not used. 

Jesus used the word Gehenna which is not a synonymous name for the Jewish word "Sheol" or "Hades" in the Greek, a word Jesus often used. 

Looking forwards that the Gospel would be preached and wellcome by the Greek spoken word. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Starise]

22 hours ago, FJK said:

Intentionally kept from them or told to them in a manner they could understand it without deep spiritual and religious development first?

@Marathoner answered this one better than I could have and gave a text basis for it. Not really anything for me to add there.

15 hours ago, Tristen said:

I think God includes difficult passages to test one's sincerity (whether supposed believers or non-believers).

Examples include;

- Forcing a woman to marry her rapist for 30 pieces of silver

or 

- It being permissible to beat a slave if the slave survives for two days before dying

or

- Letting Israelites take sex slaves from the children of conquered peoples

or

- Jesus encouraging believers to self-amputate

 

The Bible seems to say all of these - but actually says none of these. But one has to look a little deeper to find the true meanings. By contrast, those who are not sincere in their search for God will happily accept the apparent meanings at face value - and use these misunderstandings as excuses to walk away from God; feeding into their own anti-God confirmation biases. They are pretenders - wasting time and Christian resources.

I think the inclusion of these is intentional - to get such people out of the way of those who might be sincerely open to receiving the Gospel.

 

 

These are the sorts of things often brought up by unbelievers, which I have experienced personally. There often isn't a neatly packaged way to explain their inaccuracies in a few sentences. One sentence that seems convincing requires a page to explain the inaccuracies and in this way it can wear us down. 

Yet I think lies like the ones presented need attention for the sake of those reading, and who knows? Maybe one day the Lord will get hold of these people and cause them to reconsider their positions.

And yes I agree. It's a tactic from the enemy.

 

[garee]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:44 PM, Starise said:

To a new believer or an unbeliever, some of the statements Jesus made can be reason to scratch our heads wondering what He actually was trying to put across, and it's no secret that a lot of what He said was intentionally cryptic..

I remember the first time I read the passage about Jesus where He stated we should pluck our eye out or cut off our hand if it causes us to sin, for it is better to lose an eye or hand than go to hell. Whaaaaaaat??????

I immediately went to the visual mental picture and the thought of it turned me off.

Some people will read this passage and say, He's lost it. This Jesus character is just weird. Quite honestly, He could have appeared to be a little unusual. Difficult I suppose to be God in human form and not be different.He was also magnetic to those who He called, and in other circles at home he was just an average guy. Mainly because I don't believe He did most of His miracles or started teaching until Later. If you had been in His presence and seen Him Heal or feed the 5000 or speak, there would likely be no question.

The statement I mentioned that Jesus said, well I have pondered that one a lot since. If one of us was caught up in a serious sin that involved the eyes, and if we could be in hell for even 30 minutes, then I believe the statement He made would begin to make some sense. Most tend to underestimate our sins in a very big way. Jesus was making a point for how serious sin and hell is. From that perspective it makes sense to me.

Another statement of Jesus  the disciples wondered about was when He said the temple would be destroyed and He would raise it in three days.

Jesus was referring to his body and rising from the dead three days after His death by crucifixion.

And then we have the parables Jesus taught where He admitted that what he was saying was intentionally kept from those who were not intended to 'get' the message.

 

 Thanks Amen good examples. . .

Gotta love parables the signified tongue of God 

Sorry in advance for the rambling 

Jesus the most misunderstood person that ever walked on earth. .  walking doing the will of another perfectly.His own family because of the parable gospel understanding hid they    rejected him  the lonely comforted 

I believe supported in the shortest verve jesus wept at mankind's unbelief (no faith that could please Him, the one source of all Christian faith called the mutual faith of Christ a understanding from God    

I would offer to share keeping in mind what I call the exclusive "creative law of faith" .

"Let there be" as a law not subject to change  and "it was good" That seen, testifying of him not seen. . . the eternal good one.  

Parables as prophecy teach us how to understand the hidden things of God called hidden manna in Revelation 2:17 the signified understanding of God not seen, ,  called faith . . . .a picture of his labor of love working in us yoked with us.

Like honey metaphor for His living word the taste of manna.  it enlightens ones eyes making the load lighter as with Jonathan and David fleeing from the enemy. Eat to much lose everything  .

He informs his children of light. . . let it shine . . revealing the reflected glory of the Father 

Psalm 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

Exodus 16:31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

1 Samuel 14:27 But Jonathan heard not when his father charged the people with the oath: wherefore he put forth the end of the rod that was in his hand, and dipped it in an honeycomb, and put his hand to his mouth; and his eyes were enlightened.

We should be careful on how we hear when rightly dividing the parables. .  trust the Spirit that works from within (as it is written) that he will continue to teach and comfort as he promised.   

It would seem those in whom the gospel was hid  they were under the wrong kind of fear. Turning the fear of God upside down.   

I would suggest dig a little get a taste of honey  in the land of milk and honey. Milk of the word teaching us our Father in heaven is Gracious we like babes put our full trust in his hands 

Builds up strong bones of faith LOL ( Got Faith?)  Building up towards the meat  finishing the requires of the will  of God .The both will (milk) and power meat )to finish to his glory 

1 Peter 2:1-3King James Version Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

John 4: 33-35  Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do (reveal )the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

You could say; to will (declare) and to do (God is v ery good) God alone goooooooood 

Healthy diet  The mixing of faith spoken of in Hebrew 4 .Milk for the strong bones of faith , meat for the power of faith working with us. .  honey the sweet milk of bees . .  after the works done