The Problem With Evolution- Part 1, Ape to Man Ridiculousness

[The Barbarian]

13 minutes ago, Sparks said:

OK, so your research is weak, and here comes the liberal Reuters article.

So you're claiming that in two years, the death rate when from one in three million to one in 1,000?    That won't work, either.  By 2023 about 12,000,000 New Zealanders were vaccinated, meaning that would be abut 12,000 deaths in a nation where about 38,000 people die of all causes in a year.    That alone rules out your guy's claim.  

BTW, he was just posing as a New Zealand official.   He's a notorious conspiracy buff, with no association whatever to any New Zealand government agency.  He got caught peddling the same story about vaccines in the U.S.

A blog post shared on Facebook claimed that COVID-19 vaccines have killed some 676,000 people in the U.S.

The post was written by anti-vaccine activist Steve Kirsch, who has made other vaccine claims debunked by PolitiFact and other fact-checkers. 

Kirsch’s Aug. 6 post referred to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, a federal database. 

"VAERS data is crystal clear," the headline read. "The COVID vaccines are killing an estimated 1 person per 1,000 doses (676,000 dead Americans)."

That website draws on raw and limited VAERS reports, which can include information that is incomplete or inaccurate. These reports do not provide enough information to determine  whether a vaccine caused a particular adverse event.

There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines have killed people in the U.S. in large numbers, let alone 676,000. We rate the claim Pants on Fire!

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/aug/14/steve-kirsch/activist-misuses-federal-data-to-make-pants-on-fir/

He apparently thought 1 in 1,000 was a nice round number and kept that for his new story.   

[Sparks]

41 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

So you're claiming that in two years, the death rate when from one in three million to one in 1,000?    That won't work, either.  By 2023 about 12,000,000 New Zealanders were vaccinated, meaning that would be abut 12,000 deaths in a nation where about 38,000 people die of all causes in a year.    That alone rules out your guy's claim.  

BTW, he was just posing as a New Zealand official.   He's a notorious conspiracy buff, with no association whatever to any New Zealand government agency.  He got caught peddling the same story about vaccines in the U.S.

A blog post shared on Facebook claimed that COVID-19 vaccines have killed some 676,000 people in the U.S.

The post was written by anti-vaccine activist Steve Kirsch, who has made other vaccine claims debunked by PolitiFact and other fact-checkers. 

Kirsch’s Aug. 6 post referred to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, a federal database. 

"VAERS data is crystal clear," the headline read. "The COVID vaccines are killing an estimated 1 person per 1,000 doses (676,000 dead Americans)."

That website draws on raw and limited VAERS reports, which can include information that is incomplete or inaccurate. These reports do not provide enough information to determine  whether a vaccine caused a particular adverse event.

There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines have killed people in the U.S. in large numbers, let alone 676,000. We rate the claim Pants on Fire!

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/aug/14/steve-kirsch/activist-misuses-federal-data-to-make-pants-on-fir/

He apparently thought 1 in 1,000 was a nice round number and kept that for his new story.   

You will believe any liberal media outlet, won't you?

You are getting closer to November 2023, and you have even spotted Steve Kirsch.  These were not all causes deaths. 

Keep going.  You are getting warm. 

[The Barbarian]

10 minutes ago, Sparks said:

You will believe any liberal media outlet, won't you?

"The first thing a cult does is tell you that everyone else is lying."

Don't be so gullible.   Kirsch got caught lying about deaths, about being a New Zealand official, and lots of other things.    And yes, he's telling you that everyone else is lying.   Trust a cult and you get fooled.

Did you honestly think that New Zealand would have a huge increase in deaths and no one would notice?  Seriously?

 

[Sparks]

21 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

"The first thing a cult does is tell you that everyone else is lying."

Don't be so gullible.   Kirsch got caught lying about deaths, about being a New Zealand official, and lots of other things.    And yes, he's telling you that everyone else is lying.   Trust a cult and you get fooled.

Did you honestly think that New Zealand would have a huge increase in deaths and no one would notice?  Seriously?

Kirsch put up 1 million dollars per bet over several bets that no one took him up on, including you.  None of the CDC or FDA, or Press took him up on them.  

He wrote an open letter to the to the New Zealand Ministry of Health, in which they could not lose because he offered to cover their expenses.  Their claim of only 4 people dying, to his claims. 

To the Ministry he wrote, "If you’re right and only 4 people have died as a result of the COVID vaccine, I will pay for all your expenses, cease all my “misinformation superspreader” activities, and urge my colleagues to do the same. This will help reduce the amount of “misinformation” and save lives."

"But if I’m right and the data shows that you’ve killed thousands of New Zealanders, you will admit you made a mistake, apologize, revoke the vaccines, and compensate people for their loss and/or injuries.  You have nothing to lose if you are confident the vaccines are safe. You will get a definitive answer to the safety question that nobody can argue with.  The debates will be over."

So keep going ... what happened next?

Oh, and make it quick.  We have taken over this thread and need to return to what a farce evolution theory is. 

[The Barbarian]

If Kirsch felt it necessary to lie about being an official, and to lie about deaths in the United States, why would you believe him about anything else?

If he was correct in his opening claims, New Zealand would have experienced a 33.3% increase in deaths for 2023.    Which they didn't.    It was a pretty stupid thing to lie about, because it's so easy to refute.    Twelve million people vaccinated would, if Kirsch was telling the truth, add 12,000 deaths.   But nothing like that happened.   It works out that way for his more recent claims, as well...

Nearly 4 million people in New Zealand have received two doses of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine as of Dec. 1, according to public health agency Te Whatu Ora. For the claim to be true, at least 800,000 of those vaccinated people would have had to have died. But from the start of 2020 through June 2023, there were about 125,000 total deaths attributed to all causes, according to Statistics New Zealand, the country's government data agency.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/12/07/false-claim-20-percent-of-vaccinated-new-zealanders-have-died-fact-check/71838499007/

21 minutes ago, Sparks said:

So keep going ... what happened next?

Rational people laughed at him for making such a stupid error, and went on with their lives. 

 

Edited January 22 by The Barbarian

[Sparks]

25 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

If Kirsch felt it necessary to lie about being an official, and to lie about deaths in the United States, why would you believe him about anything else?

If he was correct in his claims, New Zealand would have experienced a 33.3% increase in deaths for 2023.    Which they didn't.    It was a pretty stupid thing to lie about, because it's so easy to refute.    Twelve million people vaccinated would, if Kirsch was telling the truth, add 12,000 deaths.   But nothing like that happened.

Rational people laughed at him for making such a stupid error, and went on with their lives.

Some people cannot follow the truth.  Following the truth is like following a vein of gold in mine, but some cannot do it even with rich rewards ahead. 

You should have taken Kirsch up on his bet.  When no officials want to pocket a few million dollars for 'setting Kirsch straight,' you know they cannot do it.  No doctors, no scientists, no Feds, and no one in the public of billions of people world-wide would take him up on his bet, including you.  Of course, none of that spamming of government propaganda would have worked.  He offered big money for anyone to debate him, at all, and no one showed up. 

I am switching back to how abjectly stupid evolution is, for a topic on this thread.  My prediction came true about your responses.  Thanks for at least trying.

[The Barbarian]

20 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Some people cannot follow the truth. 

Which is what got him in trouble.   If he had stopped to think about it for a bit, he'd have realized how ludicrous his claim was and how it was mathematically impossible.

21 minutes ago, Sparks said:

You should have taken Kirsch up on his bet.

Didn't know about it, but given that he's got a history of dishonesty, there's not much hope that he's going to pay off now that several fact-checkers showed that his claims could not be true.

22 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I am switching back to how abjectly stupid evolution is

I get it.  This one didn't work out so well for you.    I'm intrigued by your thought that natural phenonena are "stupid."   Start with that.

 

 

[The Barbarian]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:49 PM, The Barbarian said:

I said fossils are not evidence of evolution, and they are not. 

Your fellow YE creationist, Dr. Kurt Wise, says they are.   And he actually know what the evidence is.   Would you like me to show you, again?

That's the reality check for you.   Here it is, yet again:

Evidences for Darwin’s second expectation — of stratomorphic intermediate species — include such species as Baragwanathia27 (between rhyniophytes and lycopods), Pikaia28 (between echinoderms and chordates), Purgatorius29 (between the tree shrews and the primates), and Proconsul30 (between the non-hominoid primates and the hominoids). Darwin’s third expectation —of higher-taxon stratomorphic intermediates — has been confirmed by such examples as the mammal-like reptile groups31 between the reptiles and the mammals, and the phenacodontids32 between the horses and their presumed ancestors. Darwin’s fourth expectation — of stratomorphic series — has been confirmed by such examples as the early bird series,33 the tetrapod series,34,35 the whale series,36 the various mammal series of the Cenozoic37 (for example, the horse series, the camel series, the elephant series, the pig series, the titanothere series, etc.), the Cantius and Plesiadapus primate series,38 and the hominid series.39 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact.

[Sparks]

11 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Which is what got him in trouble.   If he had stopped to think about it for a bit, he'd have realized how ludicrous his claim was and how it was mathematically impossible.

Didn't know about it, but given that he's got a history of dishonesty, there's not much hope that he's going to pay off now that several fact-checkers showed that his claims could not be true.

I get it.  This one didn't work out so well for you.    I'm intrigued by your thought that natural phenonena are "stupid."   Start with that.

Ignoring the truth that is still playing out does not make you the winner of the debate, it just makes you the 'ignorer' of it, which is typical.  You never have lost a debate here, because you ignore that you have, and won't acknowledge that others have won. 

[Sparks]

11 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Your fellow YE creationist, Dr. Kurt Wise, says they are.   And he actually know what the evidence is.   Would you like me to show you, again?

That's the reality check for you.   Here it is, yet again:

Evidences for Darwin’s second expectation — of stratomorphic intermediate species — include such species as Baragwanathia27 (between rhyniophytes and lycopods), Pikaia28 (between echinoderms and chordates), Purgatorius29 (between the tree shrews and the primates), and Proconsul30 (between the non-hominoid primates and the hominoids). Darwin’s third expectation —of higher-taxon stratomorphic intermediates — has been confirmed by such examples as the mammal-like reptile groups31 between the reptiles and the mammals, and the phenacodontids32 between the horses and their presumed ancestors. Darwin’s fourth expectation — of stratomorphic series — has been confirmed by such examples as the early bird series,33 the tetrapod series,34,35 the whale series,36 the various mammal series of the Cenozoic37 (for example, the horse series, the camel series, the elephant series, the pig series, the titanothere series, etc.), the Cantius and Plesiadapus primate series,38 and the hominid series.39 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact.

If Darwin were alive today, he would admit fossils are not evidence of evolution because he did so when he was alive.  Notice, he didn't leap to conclusions about fossils waiting for the 'fossil record' to show evidence.  It never did. 

If he had lived through the fake transitional fossils created by man, I bet he would have called for people to stop fabricating them.